Swann is probably the commander that gets supply blocked the most.
His units are super supply heavy… just 2 factories and 1 starport with tech reactors usually build 14 supply per cycle (4 goliath/tank + 2 science vessels) . Add hercules or thors and you go past 20 supply per build cycle, which would need 2.5 depots per cycle.
Swann needs to be adding supply depots constantly, which is fine late game, but really hinders his early and mid game.
I really appreciate giving Swanns command centers energy and the calldown supply depot spell that adds +8 supply on an existing depot.
That would give him a mechanism to handle supply blocks more elegantly than pulling 5 SCVs to quickly build a depot and loose mining time, only to face the same problem again 30s later.
Other terran commanders already have some mechanism to prevent or deal with supply problems: Nova and Tychus don’t need depots, H&H has supply free galleons and double supply depots and Raynor has instant depots.
Regular supply depots with their build time and 8 supply just were not designed for swanns supply needs, but around ladder terran, where you have lower supply units like marines, marauders and medivacs. And even on ladder you can use command center energy to quickly resolve the occational supply block…
I honestly think this would improve Swanns gameplay without being OP. What do you guys think?
17 Likes
I think Swann is fine as he is and you need to learn to LOOK AT DE SOUPLY more often.
16 Likes
I think Swann’s has a real disadvantage when it comes to supply.
Why else can you explain that Raynor who has 1 supply units and who cares much less about SCV mining time, has instant depots? How would you think about removing instant depots for raynor and justify it with…
?
3 Likes
Even if you don’t like the fact that Swann can speed up production with multiple SCVs,that is his thing. At least he has a work around, unlike Fenix or Abathur or any number of other commanders who can’t speed up supply increase. If it’s really a matter of SCVs losing mining time, then just build 1 extra SCV and have it constantly be building depots nonstop.
9 Likes
I’ve never had a problem with his supply. I always have 2 crews of 4 SCV’s hotkey’d and ready to build at a moment’s notice. I need Supply? Boom, built in 5 seconds. Need to mass an army shortly? Boom, all 8 workers building depots and done within a minute.
8 Likes
I love swanns multiple SCV build ability. It’s great for speeding up command center and production / upgrade buildup. But supply depots are too frequently needed and impact your mining time a lot more than 1 command center does.
Non terran commanders do not loose mining time when it comes to building pylons / overlords. And Fenix btw. has his early game supply needs covered with just a few points in mastery.
So yeah… you’re comparing apples with oranges. That’s why i stuck to comparing Swann with the other Terran commanders. And even then it only makes sense to compare with H&H and Raynor, cause the others don’t even have depots.
3 Likes
Managing his supply is part of his playstyle, I really don’t see the point in making the commanders having identical solutions to the same problem. Some commanders don’t have to worry about supply or lost mining time, Swann does, but he has a big laser drill too; it’s just about adapting your playstyle.
5 Likes
What do you mean with this - you never get supply blocked with Swann? If yes, then great… you have great macro man. I would love to see your last Swann replay.
But for those that do get supply blocked, the problem is that pulling 5 SCVs to quickly build a depot costs you over proportionally more lost mining time than 1 SCV building the depot in time.
Maybe I’m just still not good enough with coop level 960… but i cannot remember a single game i played as Swann where i did not get supply blocked.
Why identical solutions? Nobody else has orbital depots as far as i can remember. Is it not?
While Supply can be a bit of an issue if you aren’t pumping out Depots constantly, I find myself to actually be running dry on gas early, and minerals all game. Puts strain on me to decide “Upgrades now, or upgrades later…?”
4 Likes
I just have 1 SCV and queue him to build supply depots whenever i have the money. He just build depots for like 12 mins straight without break.
You need to queue thing up and put the use of shift into the gameplay. I always wonder why SC2 players never bother to touch this feature when i am so glad that i can queue up the building of the entire base, patrolling and atk move by shift.
8 Likes
I see that your main concern about pulling multiple SCVs is mineral loss on mining time, you’re not really losing as much minerals as you think you are with Swann. Swann can get his expansion up very quuckly on maps with unguarded expansions, and even on some guarded ones if you’re experienced enough to pull off a factory/billy/4scv expand. The only time supply is ever an issue is in the early game when you’re trying to get your herc/tank up, which, along with the supply given by your 2nd command center, would require 4 depots, during this time you usually have A.R.E.S. bots to take care of attack waves and objectives. If you get enough time in with Swann and developing your build order you can get to the point where you’ll spend very little time in the early game supply blocked, and still be able to churn out tanks and saturate your expansion. In the mid to late game, when you do get supply blocked, you should never hesitate to pull scvs from your mineral line to build depots.
Look at it this way, even if your 5 SCVs did lose out on 50 minerals while they were building your depot which only takes about five seconds, would they have really been better off mining when you wouldn’t have been able to spend those minerals on units due to being supply blocked anyway?
Also, about your comparison with Raynor’s 1 supply units; Swann’s units are VERY cost efficient, and with massive damage and range on Siege Tanks, the laser drill, defensive matrix from science vessels, and tanky A.R.E.S. bots, you will take very little losses, so you can afford to have a smaller army and a slower ramp up.
3 Likes
Building Suply depots should not be a problem for mining time beyond the early game because you should have SCVs that are for building/repairing only (ie in excess of a saturated economy)
1 Like
He’s fine. His units are very supply efficient, once you get in the habit of putting a single SCV on shift-command in making depots you can stay ahead of a single factory’s production.
Once you get two factories or a factory and a starport going, put an extra SCV on depot duty.
It’s good practice for maintaining mechanics in general.
2 Likes
yes, that one spell is still missing.
But it wouldn’t make sense if there was only that option in the Command Center Upgraded. Maybe it could cost you some minerals (less than 100 of course), and be always available like the drone. Or be available after a 50/50 research , and cost like 50 minerals to apply.
1 Like
I agreed with Swann supply problem.
Fortunately, his SCV can simultaneously build structure, so you can take 2 SCV on depot duty untill cap at 200.
Perhaps let the Laser drill provide 20 population from the start of the game?
1 Like
I also don’t have problems with Swann’s supply. Here’s my replay, if you want to check:
https://drop.sc/replay/11453161
I did a build that is explained on TeamLiquid site:
https://tl.net/forum/starcraft-2/527476-co-op-commander-guide-swann
You have already answered yourself: if you have problems with Swann’s supply, the reason is in your macro. If supply gives you trouble, focus on it as priority in every game. It will become much easier to handle just after a couple of such games.
In early game, use 1 or 2 SCVs to build depots when needed and shift-click them back to the mineral line. In middle game, use 1 SCV to keep depots constantly. In late game, use 2 SCVs to build depots constantly. Also, note that you get quite some supply from the second Command Centre.
Focus on the economy in the early game, expand asap, keep building workers until you are saturated on both bases. Don’t build units until you have spare resources. Don’t build upgrades until you have some units. Laser drill and combat drop should be enough to get you through first wave or two. If it’s not, build some static defence.
Also, what masteries do you use? There is a mastery that reduces the cost of vespine drones for 90% - I suggest you take it as it saves you 720 minerals - that is huge in the early game! The alternative isn’t worth it anyway.
I know Swann is difficult to play, but that is exactly why I like him - he is a challenge. Giving him buffs would nullify that. I’m currently learning Alarak and I think he has even worse supply management. But I know that when my macro is on the level, he will be just as powerful as Swann.
1 Like
Well, supply depots only cost minerals and attention, and I’m pretty sure you’re not lacking the minerals as Swann. The real concern maybe more accurately the amount of effort you need to dedicate to them tanks of yours.
Are you pulling multiple SCVs back and forth every time, just for one Supply Depot (SD)? I build 2 to 3 at a time to “save on combined shipping”. I do that for HH and Raynor too. Even though Raynor’s SD are near instant, the opportunity cost of moving an SCV there is worth considering.
I too get supply blocked with Swann. However, I’m typically higher up in mineral count since I never pulled any SCVs off mining. At that point, Supply is the bottleneck, and I’m not really fretting too much about lost mins from pulling them.