I never get supply blocked and don’t even go over 100 supply with Swann. I think the players needs an update, not the commander.
If you tell us how you play we can tell you what can be improved.
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Also, I ended up creating a chart of bt’s for Swann’s various buildings utilizing Improved SCVs…
.
.
SV has a bt of 48. Gollies have a bt of 32.
Compared to Raynor’s units… Marines and Medics have a build time of 10, while Mauraders and Firebats have 13.
If you’re using “cycle” to denote from start to finish from a production building, and allowing for multiple buildings for faster production per cycle, than Raynor’s infantry can get in 3 cycles for every one of Swann’s units, so that’ll typically put them on par with Swann.
Also, Rines cost 1 Supply. Everything else from Rax costs 2 supply.
I’ve noticed Raynor gets supply blocked just as much as Swann does. THAT is why he needs Orbital Drop. He gets starved for mins too, hence, the need for MULEs.
I’m kinda curious, so let’s work out the math. For me:
===== Swann
2 Factories + 1 Starport
2 Gollies + 2 Tanks + 2 SV = 4 + 6 + 4 = 14 Supply
===== Raynor
2 Reactor Rax + 2 Tech Lab Rax
4 Rines + 1 Med + 1 Marauder = 4 + 2 + 2 = 8
But with 3x as many given the same time frame for Swann’s cycle = 24 Supply.
dude, if you dont like how swann is, then play someone else. simple.
I do like playing Swann. I just think he could use some love.
SWANN NEEDS HELP??? !!!
Wow thx for that… always wanted to know this.
Very useful.
So here is a question i was thinking about: is it better to pull 5 SCVs to build expansion CC or pull 10 SCVs instead?
On paper you loose mining time with either 5 or 10 SCVs. But your CC finishes in 15s instead of 30s, so you get an additional 15s more mining time on the new base.
To me it seems worth pulling the maximum amount of 10 SCVs for your expo, even including SCV tavel times… right?
Yes that was what i meant.
That is all nice and fine, but is not really relevant to the argument.
In your above example a single depot would unblock all of Raynors production. Swann on the other hand would need 2 depots, which cannot be instantly built.
Swann getting supply blocked in the above scenario, would require 2 depots to get all his production buildings working again. So if you pull 3 SCVs to build depots, production is fully stopped for 10s, and half of it is stopped for another 10s.
This just does not happen with Raynors.
CC first is the way to go, not supply depot first with Swann unless you plan on turret heavy play. Sure you are supply blocked 4 a bit but that double scv production. Hot damn
Really? I have thought about going CC first with swann but have deemed it not wort it.
Gathering additional 300 minerals should take 30s with 15 SCVs mining. Then you need to build the CC… with 10 SCVs it takes 15s. So you can’t produce SCVs for 45s. And your mining with 5 SCVs for 15s. Don’t know… seems like its not worth it.
Going CC first will give double production, mineral outcome is about the same when comparing to depot first. But you will have so much more gas to play with going cc first. I use 8 scv to build not 10. The extra income will give enough to go double scv and refineries or go into factory first depending if you want to defend first wave (double cc can hold 1st wave all maps)
Pulling max scv doesn’t warrant the faster build time. What good is an extra CC if you have no $$ to produce right after its build lol
It’s nice as a “catchup” mechanism. I’ve been forgetful and delayed expansions at times. At that point, I’m flush with mins. Anywhere from 5 to 10 SCVs will get you expanded in “no time”. 5 is probably the “sweet spot”, but given how CCs have the highest bt, you still get noticeable returns after 5.
I think I may have pulled more than 10 before, but as indicated on the chart, I was told that Swann’s Improved SCVs top out at 10. Assigning more than 10 will yield no further effect.
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So what? Looking will reduce the stupid need to constantly spam annoying depos? We want a fun gameplay. Spam 23!!! depos each game is not fun, it’s not fight, it’s not ability management. Damn this is not even base management!
Topicstarter, I agree with you. I was writing about this problem like 2 years ago. Swann had 2 revamps since that times and Bliz STILL don’t give a shi about his supply.
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Its easy. Order two tanks, build a depo. Order two tanks, build a depo. This is no different to building a pylon for every carrier etc. Managing supply is a part of most comanders.
I have two/four tanks before the 1st wave hits, depends if ally takes gas quickly or waits 10 minutes.
Ally not taking gas right away so I can’t use gas drones is the most annoying thing ever for Swann imho. Forces to spend more minerals early game.
Who cares about minerals loss for 15 sec of mining if gas is the bottleneck. Want to spank allies who don’t take gas quickly. And some don’t take gas at all! They rely on passive gas from my gas drones, so annoying.
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As someone who generally likes free buffs, I would be on board with this. However, I can well see why they didn’t add this (yet, or ever), as it doesn’t seem to be anywhere near as game breaking as some here are making it out to be.
This could open floodgates too…
HH needs an AG tower
Karax needs another reliable means of AA
Raynor needs a unit that can detect
Vorazun needs better AG AoE options
Zeratul finding Artifacts shouldn’t require you to mass drop waypoints to find them reliably
etc.
If commanders do have shortcomings, they all must be spoken out. Many of such things were reported and fixed. For example previously Stukov’s mech and queens were wack, now they are good (not OP, just exactly fine).
Raynor can deal without detector, he has a good replacement for this. Vorazun don’t need nothing, she’s OP. Horners really need a tower!
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Needing to build supply depots is not a short coming.
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So… because other commanders have ways to get around supply that is unconventional (ie. not building Supply Depot), therefore Swann must need/get a similar mechanism - even though this particular macro skill doesn’t hinder his gameplay. (Claiming it does due to personal lack of experience/skill is not the same thing.)
What a wrong kind of sentiment OP.
There’s still complaints that his Bunkerlisks were nerfed too much though, so even though I thoroughly enjoy Stukov 2.0, it’s still kind of an overall “bitter victory”.
I choose those examples specifically b/c people have complained about them here. This very topic is another one to add to that. It brings up some points, but I still feel his Supply Depots don’t really need a fix.
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Swann does get an unconventional way of getting supply… mass building .
The mechanism i proposed is in no way similar to any existing commander at all.
Perfection goal that changes. Never stops moving. Can chase. Cannot catch.
Looking for ways to improve existing gameplay, is actually a pretty damn honorable sentiment to have if you ask me. Doesn’t mean that all my suggestions and ideas are great by any means… but at least i try.
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You’re completely right, it’s an early game issue.
Well that would solve swanns problem mostly - as the previous guy already noted, this is only a big issue early on. It doesn’t make much difference if you get supply blocked at over >50 army supply.
I do like the orbital depot calldowns better though.