I’m about to start the 3x prestige grind for Swann.
Keeping in mind that 1) the masteries won’t be available and 2) neither will all the leveling upgrades, any build/composition ideas that can make it as easy as possible (for Brutal)? I just don’t want to be a massive burden on my random queue ally.
As I move through the prestiges, is there one that compliments the 1-15 process?
Early on, you’ll probably want your Heavy Weapons Specialist until you unlock Drill Lv3. Otherwise, P0 works just fine.
As for builds… Depends upon the composition. Hellbat/Goliath, Mass Goliath, and Mass Wraiths all works wonders. But with Wraiths, you’ll need your stutter step bonus damage ability.
P1 would be your easiest choice since it provides that AoE and consistent damage coverage. So even if you are slow to macro, have no level upgrades, or masteries, you’ll have something to carry that forward.
I find P0 overall best after you’re done but that’s not too relevant for leveling them. I am a proponent of leveling through them all as you go, as it really teaches the difference (though not necessarily enjoyable).
While you don’t have tech reactors yet, Swann’s Herc/tank combo works right out of the gate at level 1, though macro is a bit slower due to lacking multi build SCV’s. You even have access to maelstrom rounds.
As others have said, P1 can help alleviate the early game buildup. Flying factories are timeless.
PS, if you’re sticking with playing P3, ALWAYS keep around 4 SCV’s in your Herc for free repairs on all your units inside of it
I’m not attached to any particular prestige. The “3x” I mentioned above just means I’m going go through all 3 start to finish.
Oh, gotcha. Well, the SCV trick is also useful in early game before your Herc is fully loaded with tanks. A Herc with a couple SCV’s and 2-4 tanks with lazor drill killing a few flying units can allow you to start pushing very quickly. Most small enemy bases in the beginning don’t have enough anti air to quickly kill a Herc.
One other advice, don’t feel rushed to deploy your vespene drones. You’re going to have a harder time with your macro at the beginning anyways without spending 800 minerals on gas.
Indeed, anyone who pressures you about early vespene drones is by definition a noob. You should not listen and act on their inexperienced whim.
Yes you don’t need to drone your partner early.
Do anyone of you guys notice most people don’t understand how vespene drones works. Both players get gas whenever one drone is placed. But Most seem to think they get gas only when a drone on their gas extraction structure.
AFAIK, people just want drones set up earlier for max gas. That isn’t worth Swann taking a hit to his econ when he needs up to 800 mins to get there. If they’re missing the “player 1 +2 gas” and “player 2 +2 gas” popups where the drones are at, then that’ll be something!
Honestly I don’t really worry too much about when I put them down at all. If my partner is good enough to use the gas effectively, then they really don’t need it to begin with.
Granted, that goes back to that elitist “brutal isn’t hard” attitude most of us forum goers slip into.
Gas rate is something like 114gas/min at full saturation. At 4x that for 15min (from 0min, which is impossible), a player would get 6840gas or at most 7k.
At 8x vespene drone at its earliest (which means both players would need to reasonably place down their geysers). The overall increase to each player’s gas total @8x vespene drones is something like 33% more.
So basically, in an impossible scenario, where:
The actual gain is 6840gas x 33% = 2257gas but that’s in the course of 15min. So impossibly again, each minute between 0-10min, this sad sad player gains 2257gas / 15min = 150gas/min.
Now this mastery of a player, given more realistically can’t have 8x vespene and 4x fully saturated geysers by 4min. The true gain at best is 150 (an overestimation already as seen by above premise), gets 150gas by 5th minute.
The level of unreasonable return at the cost of 100min (at times) per vespene drone is astounding. So in a nutshell, the Swann sacrifices a crucial 100min so the ally can gain 100gas (more realistically speaking) by the 5th minute in. What could this mastery of a player do with 100gas at this point? Push out with an army that he otherwise wouldn’t have? Literally nothing.
Oh on the other hand, for perspectives, if the same player truly wanted +100gas, all they had to do was to sacrifice <100min (depending on commander) and get their geyser up 1min earlier than usual. They’d have an actual 14% more return by the same estimation… that’s how stupid asking vespene drones early actually is…
thats fake news sir 
p3 is boss with swann. you lose 50% cd on console (which often times are complete unnecessary in many games - i just use them to have them used) while earning the best mobility for your whole army in coop. no way using p0 over p3.
Agreed about P3>P0.
Vespene Drones before Mastery is available (No need to discuss whether or not the Mastery is worthwhile) I think should be looked at on a case by case basis.
For example, if you’ve just prestiged and are level 3 (assuming you do the prestige trick with B+1 though a mutation is better) and get into a game with a gas starved ally like Nova or Vorazun and don’t want to “be a burden” then the easiest way to make your ally love you and move along the game is to drop those drones early and fast.
In fact, if it’s anyone but Alarak, Stukov, Zaratul and Tychus I’d be wanting to get those drones out pretty early until some of your high level abilities come online.
Just because you build a Refinery and put a Drone on it doesn’t mean you have to put 3 workers on it. One strategy that is sometimes useful is to go for 2/3 saturation on minerals first, then 2/3 saturation on gas, then add a 3 SCV to all of the far mineral patches, then 3rd SCVs on gases, then finish off saturating minerals.
Agree to disagree I suppose? P3 is boss that I can agree but strictly speaking better than P0, I can’t get behind.
P3 is amazing for Tank/Herc but that’s also where it falls short. The utility of top bar between Concentrated Beam and Pulse Cannon is far more versatile than straight up hammering with tank shells.
It is satisfying no doubt lol 
nonetheless to watch things melt to them drops.
A level 3 Swann can do just fine without crippling itself with -800min debt to satisfy a clearly noob ally. If you can’t carry a level 3 Swann without his vespene drones then don’t carry at all. Nobody will fault you for leaving the game.
To say you’d be happy and require a level 3 Swann to drop vespene drones for you cuz you are x, y, z CO is entirely different - a clear indication you had no business carrying.
Also, your ally’s satisfaction/happiness purely hinged on vespene drones is wholesomely stupid lol. Then for them to act poorly in any way because you (as a level 3 Swann didn’t give them vespene drones) is entirely a reflection of their poor skill and gamesmanship.
wtf are top bars required for? we are talking non-mutation i guess? in the rare case i get into a emergency situation (whats even an emergency?* i almost level 900 and have seen it all) i speed build 1-3 turrets and repair them with scv. im not exaggerating claiming not using top bars in a meaningfull way at all. i just use it to flex or beeing lazy. you know whats king? teleporting non stop all over the map pulverinzing enemy armies that just arrived.
*refering to data that was posted here few years ago that >95% of all brutal games are won.
I mean… I’ve been A1000 forever with full prestiges and not sure I’ve seen it all. There are more play styles than Herc/Tank when it comes to Swann. Sure P3 in that specific regard is king but it doesn’t overshadow every other style.
There is a difference between not knowing how to use something VS that something being useless.
P3 Swann is only better when enemy comp is ground. Unloading Golialhs doesn’t have the same effect as unloading tanks.
P0 or P1 Swann is a good baseline in most cases (Brutal). I would prefer P1 for leveling, I love that lazzeeeer
It doesn’t take 800 minutes to get there 
I know you are being sarcastic.
Flex my elistism 
well, we know the maps, we know the units combos, we know when they spawn. only suprise might the ur ally doing some crazy BS. anyway you mostlikely win the map with ease.
i wonder what my level would have been if it had been recorded since coop release. i guess i would have been 1k before that prestige thing started.
what i can agree with: in some rare cases i go my standard fast 8tank/herc/heal&range upgrade and then face an all-air enenmy comp. meanwhile my ally might aswell have build 0 anti air units. that actually feels uncomfortable and a top bar beam is apprecitated.
mins = minerals
Save for DoN, there will be a total of 8 geysers between you and your ally, times 100 minerals each, for a total of 800
I know I usually drone myself first, then drone my partner, but some of them say “TY.” I’m like you are already getting gas from the drone from my geyser.