This doesn’t need to devolve any further but I think what gives P3 the edge over P0 imo is giving Warp to Science Veseels. They gain so much utility from this between being able to port to your allies hero to defensive matrix, fly a few forward to mass irradiate a zerg or bio attack wave and then port away to just how much betterbit is to be ablebto take your science vessels with you when you move your main force in hercs.
Sure, you might not mass Hercs every game but you can almost always build 4-8 at the beginning to deal with early stuff and follow up with whatever else.
I would like P3 more if it also gave Warp to Wraith haha…
I love both P3 and P0, but most of the time I prefer the continuous momentum of P0. I usually have a few SCV’s in my hercs for free continuous healing anywhere, all the time.
As for the lazor abilities, it’s much easier to point, click, and continue my offensive (especially if going against enemy air) then having to pull my offensive momentum, run the risk of losing some units against an enemy wave, and then moving back to the front line.
At the end of the day, enemy air comps REALLY hurt P3 since goliaths aren’t hit scan.
Not to mention, P0 is a lot more flexible with other comps, such as wraiths, cyclones, mass Thor’s, etc.
Absolutely it should! P3 seems rather underwhelming for Swann considering what other commanders get. Buffing something other than basic herctank would really help open up some different strategies.
I think P3 may have been made for those that completed that damn “Untouchable” part of Starcraft Master and truly master it, so that they can show it off in a prestige dedicated for it by humiliating Amon in front of their ally.
And that would be why anything more would have been deemed unnecessary.
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The load/unload trick isn’t that difficult to use. P3 isn’t as “crazy” as what’s being suggested by some here, and the reason it is relatively underwhelming is that ‘the benefit sounds better than it actually is in practice’.
As a reference, here’s the ‘advantage’:
- Advantages:
- Hercules have twice the cargo capacity and unload units instantly.
- Science Vessels can use Tactical Jump and its cooldown reduced by 50%.
Hercules has 32 cargo space, twice that in P3 is 64. Each Sieged Tank takes up 4 cargo space, so in a regular non-P3 situation, it carries 8 compared to its counter-part P3’s 16 sieged tanks.
- So what, 2x the firepower is always better right? Well, yes, always more fun to watch tank shells annihilate. That said though, each Sieged Tank does 75dmg (+15 to Armored), so 8 x 75 (+15) = 600 (+120). <=== Realizing this damage destroys 99% of things (and it isn’t like Herc costs heavily or builds slowly… you can always make more than 1, which every Swann player would/does). Having 2x cargo space isn’t the same as having 2x firepower… the resource, cost, time needed is basically the same, sans 1 Herc’s extra cost in non-P3.
- What about instant unload? Well, sounds fancy on the surface, while I didn’t exactly quantify the time, Hercules has next-to-instant unload/load… so P3’s supposed benefit in this regard is really just illusory at best.
The true benefit and only advantage of P3 is really just in the halved Jump (and the slightly more convenient Jump applied to SV, which in practice isn’t that useful given how SCVs in Herc can repair…). Therein lies the problem P3 also faces, as this benefit only applies to Herc/Tank while giving no rise to Wraiths or Cyclone, leaving P3 crippled by comparison (due to its 50% reduced top bar, which impacts the game -100% when using non-Herc/Tank strategy).
All of that isn’t to say P3 is somehow bad, in fact quite the opposite. When it comes to strictly Herc/Tank style, it undoubtedly has an advantage in terms of travelling more frequently. However, when you really put it under microscope, the difference is really between moving about a full P3 Herc independently to another full P3 Herc for multi-pronged defence/assault… VS 2 full non-P3 Herc independently to another 2 full non-P3 Herc in similar fashion. <=== In practice, you’re still just using 2 different teams of Herc.
- I believe it is for this particular conundrum that many who are very comfortable with Swann understands the minimal alteration P3 brings, thus in the face of a wider variety of gameplay style P3 becomes (in that sense) more obsolete.
I can see that playing regular Brutal that you would want to play P0 as it gives the most variety to Swanns playstyle and you can mess around with different strategies depending on what you feel like. Also because you’ve played regular Brutal so much you are much better with wave timings and can leverage top bar abilities to clear waves better.
I find however that on an easy map I can build Wraith anyway as P3, it’s on the tough maps that I want what P3 gives.
It probably goes deeper as we probably do different masteries as well as P3 lends itself to Immortality Protocol cost reduction which gives so much staying power for Swanns army when tough mutations would push his sustain ability (and threaten his ability to get the critical mass that he needs).
Same with Vespene Drone cost reduction though on this one I’m more flexible and feel that cost reduction only has the tiniest edge over Drill and mainly because teamwork is so much more important when playing harder B+1-6. I’d maybe swap this one around if my ally was playing a mineral starved commander but those are a minority so most of the time it pays off.
I’ve actually found it to be the opposite case for brutal+ missions. When going against enemy waves that can have all kinds of nasty mutators on them, it’s MUCH better to click and kill than it is to engage with an army. And while the small increase in load and unload time can be important to avoid some mutators (and projectiles against certain comps) it’s usually not a make or break thing. However, I will say if you’re playing against micro intensive mutators, having your whole army contained in one nice package with backup hercs can help you avoid losses that might occur if you’re jumping around a few different control groups with hercs and the units within.
Probably goes back to preference again, but if I’m going into mutations blind, I find turrets to be better at resisting mutators and put my mastery points there. While an untimely nuke mutator could wipe out your tanks and Thor’s, those are usually the mutators where I’m going for a mobile comp instead, which isn’t effected by immortality.
At the end of the day it’s all about preference, and for me P0 gives me the most options with no down sides, allowing me to switch to whatever comp I’ll need with 100% effectiveness.
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If you’re doing Random Mission, then P1 is probably best overall.
For specific missions, you can always do P2 for more defense ones, and P3 for more assault/push ones.
For P1, it works well right off the bat
For P2, lv3 and lv11 are where the power spikes at
For P3, it works well enough off the bat
Just remember to drop vespene drone when your economy is comfortable with it not ASAP and Support your ally with science vessels if they have mech. They will be very grateful for it. (at least I will). Can’t go wrong with tried and trusted mass goliath as well. Sprinkle some thors in to cast barrage to wipe out clumps or some hellbats against mass ling comps.