since 1 of the 4 upgrade is not affected this prestige is weak we barely gain 1 range 2 armor and 25% attack speed suggesting to double the bonus so its worth getting
It does need buffing to be “worthwhile”. I’m just not sure doubling it is enough.
I think even with its current problematic benefits, if they reduced the production time by 50% then it would make them work a lot better.
Let him go full Protoss and have the defence self build
What if we let him build static at home/main, and allow him to drop them from top bar
I think +200% would be enough if it included the hp/s of the fire suppression.
For starters make Science vessels able to repair & shield buildings - makes no sense that they can not (along with bio to help teammates).
Allowing swann scv to path above buildings would also simplify navigation around defenses for easier repair.
P2 should affect all 4 upgrades but still suffers from not giving anything meaningful.
Biggest problem towers have in sc2 coop is that they are chunky so only a few can reach the enemy at a time, unlike armies who are piled up & max dpsing the few towers in reach.
By Jove I think that’s just what we need!
Possible thought to really lean into the Prestige.
+300% (so total +4 range, 8 armor, +100% attack speed…helps with the dps/area, since a lot more can attack)+either science vessels can heal+shield buildings OR the bonus applies to the fire suppression as well.
-no Vespene Drones, max supply of 50?60?75
So you will have only a few units, to support your turret wall.
Max supply 50? That’s enough for your SCV’s and that’s about it. Unlike Karax who can have the instant build and manage to somewhat push into enemy bases, Swann doesn’t have that option and thus still needs units. Namely, one of the best defensive tools, the Siege Tank. Even without, your want 8-12 SCV’s to speed build everything. And losing vespene drones at that point just hurts your ally.
I think his P2 is fine the way it is. I’ve seen it easily hold their own against attack waves.
That said, I wouldn’t be opposed to more buffs to it. My fix would’ve been to just apply the +100% to the Fire Suppression upgrade as well. There’s no reason it shouldn’t have applied to it. It’s not like there was a “gacha” like Artanis P1 and Dragoons where the P1’s (+) specifies “active ability”.
O1H, no more +50% gas cost on units. OTOH, no gas drones makes for a sadder ally. FWIW, this is Karax across 2 of his Prestiges (P1 means no repair beam nor Unity Barrier for units, while P3 means no Chronos for him nor his ally).
Cut to supply is too overboard. For this proposal, I’d say lower his supply cap from 200, to 150 to 170. Then reduce the upgrades so that it’s say, +200%
Keep in mind towers as the main playstyle focus are only useful on perhaps 3 out of 15 available maps.
Designing a prestige that is useful on only 3 out of 15 maps is already dubious.
Slapping heavy penalties on tower-prestiges on top of the fact that you are already skipping on more useful prestiges is not exactly a good idea.
Army-prestiges or calldown-prestiges or economy-prestiges achieve everything tower-prestiges do, but they can do it across all 15 maps.
I ironically suggested the warp-style build. But that or a 75% or so build speed buff for towers would much more allow a aggressive tower style, which would be a neat prestige I think.
This is exactly the key problem. People suggesting to buff tower DPS or bulk (as others are) clearly have no actual in-game experience of how offensive tower works (and works to therefore function on all maps as a result… AKA time, time, time… takes way too long to set up a group of 5-10 for Swann even with 20 SCVs).
Indeed. Functionally, it makes offensive tower much more user-friendly by such a simple value-alteration.
Also, I don’t think this suggestion and the DPS buff, bulk buff, change to advantage/disadvantage are mutually exclusive. Though I do think it is far more feasible and functionally useful than the others.
As someone who mains the Grease Monkey prestige, I can tell you that his towers do NOT need a damage increase. It’s main weakness isn’t so much the gas cost increase, but that you are dependent on your ally to make the prestige work in early game in most other maps, especially in mutations.
If I were to buff anything while keeping a negative as per design/balance choice, I would just allow the turrets to drop from the sky and deploy instantly like Raynor’s supply depots. This will allow the player to play similar to Karax P3, but with a more versatile array of towers and those towers being your only focus; instead of using the towers as damage sponges to bait the enemy into your SoA calldowns.
Swann towers are strong as it is, which makes this prestige somewhat lacking for the sacrifice.
Pushing with Swann’s static was viable and possible even before prestiges were released. P2 simply “strengthened” it by ever so slightly… but never solved the core issue of time.
It’s funny cuz I think how the suggestions in this topic (and those similar topics before it) evolved must have been exactly how they originally conceived the prestige. And because of the lack of understanding on it, it landed itself to how P2 is. Just my side theory lol.
You can get close to that with multiple SCVs
P2 can be fun if you know the map and/or mutators ahead of time but get an offensive map with environmental mutators and suddenly your a worse swann P0. No thanks.
I am aware of that. But even with 20-30 SCVs, you aren’t going to outbuild a handful of Karax probes, especially if you are trying to push with only static.
Not really… not even close at all.
The way multi-SCV works has a lot of diminishing returns & you can only have max 10 SCVs onto any single structure. Getting any 10 onto 1 static has its own difficulties.
Neglecting travelling times and body blocking of both Karax Probe and Swann SCV:
- Karax can warp in any cannon/khaydarin monolith within less than 2 game seconds (and that’s hella-overestimated).
- It takes 23sec to make a Flaming Betty (for example).
- Biggest time% drop is having your 2nd SCV onto the same construction 100% time ==> 62.5%, 14.4sec, saving ~8.6sec.
- Each consecutive SCV reduce time saved less and less (not going to post whole table). @ 10 x SCV, 15.6% achieved,
3.6sec, 19.4sec saved.
So basically, at your most ideal scenario, Swann using 10 x SCV all magically move without hindrance onto each queued static, you can reach ~1.5 to 2x a single Karax Probe can do. (Flaming Betty being the quickest, Blaster Billy at 26sec ==> ~4sec x 10SCV). So on average, if you were spending 15-20sec as Karax, you are at best now spending 30-40sec as Swann, every single engagement. For a strategy that is all about pre-emptively setting up… the average player loses minutes for each consecutive base, wave, objective.
And that’s why if we “halved” production time, then this issue is somewhat mitigated. Also why if we can somehow switch to insta-drop via main storage from top bar or Rick’s 75% instead of 50% time reduction is far more viable. Keeping in mind, even at that reduction, the player is working diligently with 10SCVs or more at all times to achieve similar goals.