Struggling with Swann

I mostly go with Gollies + Tanks, then add SV later on. Spam laser drill spells as needed to clear waves, and enemy bases. I have good map knowledge at this point, so I can better anticipate where my main for will need to be.

I’m sure it’s not as effective nor “rocking” as Herc/Tank, but it’s much more doable for the common Sc2 Coop player.

I’ve used Hercs for Miner Excavation Mutations. As soon as a ship evacs, the next one is IMMEDIATELY under fire, and will die in the next 5 seconds, so teleporting there ASAP, drawing fire, unloading units to fight back, and getting the laser drill in action goes a long way there.

U don’t use tank drops solo unless your ally is tanking damage for you. Have a small turret wall in front or some goliaths or Thor’s with a science vessel shield. Heck u can even fill up another transport with scv to basically set up a turret defense almost instantly anywhere on map where ur tanks can chill behind.
Turrets with armor upgrade are almost unbreakable

The key is to pick them up when damaged and drop them behind the undamaged ones, we are ‘jerking off to them’ because tanks, and later Goliaths are simply better than wraiths. Not to mention easier to keep alive, Wraiths are very vulnerable to aoe.
Doesn’t matter that sci vessels can’t teleport, you would want to keep them with your Goliaths anyway.
And you can always get the Armory healing upgrade if you use them away from your Goliaths a lot.
And go for the Immortality protocol mastery, it offsets much of the cost of losing tanks, though you should work on not losing them at all. :slight_smile:

And yes you should get vespene harvester asap, since it’s basically an extra worker you can insta build to make your ramp-up faster, which is why you should go with that mastery until you’ve become better at playing Swann.

Use Combat Drop to tank damage if you struggle keeping tanks alive otherwise, you can push more agressively at the 8 minute mark, or before that if your ally can tank for you. If there are too many enemy units, just pick up the tanks and drop them a little farther back.
The 4:00 drop should have cleared the first wave and been sent to the objective/contested expo.

Again, watch a few vods and replays, I’ve already mentioned some, to see how it’s done.
And work on the list of problems, I’ve mentioned.

Don’t play on one base, even if it seems easier, it will give you a worse economy and mean you can’t afford losing units nearly as much. The timings are also fairly different compared to a fast expand which I think is more important to learn.

Learning to pull off a fast expand fluidly is pretty essential to learn, so practice on something like Void Thrashing as I’ve said, and in a few days, show how you’ve improved (hopefully) :slight_smile:

You can also play on a custom coop map if you just want to practice the opener, play the first few minutes multiple times and restart every time you make a mistake in your build.
Just go into the arcade and search for Void Thrashing etc.

Well, quite frankly your style seems somewhat terrible for anyone not a top speedrunner. We just have very different opinions, I guess. But you do you.
I just find it bad advice. ‘shrugs’

Then just tell your worst and best case. It’s not any more complex than that, mine was close to a worst case, with a faster ally and more optimisation, I can maybe cut it down to 7:00-7:30, though, I think I might focus on rushing the Herc out faster instead so I can start whittling down enemies with 2-4 tanks.

You’re not the only one with this issue, don’t worry. If you’re still working on eco mid-game then it makes sense to tighten up your build order and ramp speed. GL, you’ll get there with practice. I know I’m loads better than I was when I started. And when it gets a bit frustrating, switch to an easy commander for some relaxation and come back to Swann later. :wink:

Yeah, this actually works really well on some maps. Until you have enough tanks to cover multiple spawns you can jump the tanks between turreted zones.

I’ve played over 7000 coop games, my style evolved from “how to make workers” to “slow expand” to “fast expand” to “why bother with full supply if I can win with 70” to “why bother with two bases if I can get 70 supply on one”

I think your suggestions are valid in certain cases, but considering that OP cannot stay on top of producing army from one building (which is obvious from the replay) than all these suggestions about expand and multiple factorise/starports are useless because how is he going to run before he can walk.

P.S. how to learn to play:
Step one:
Constunt production from one structure - main CC (OP has this good)
Step two:
Constant production from two structures - main CC + factory (OP struggles here)
Step three:
Production from CC+factory+CC
Step four:
CC+factory+CC+Starports
Step five:
CC+factory+CC+Starports+Research

Normally these steps one would master during leveling from 1 to 15 simply because some structure/unit/research are locked away and you have no choice but to progress and learn. Due to whatever reasons OP needs to continue with these steps to build a strong foundation.

One small thing I’ve noticed from a LOT of Mengsk and Swann players is that they don’t abuse mass build like they should. The fact you can so quickly build your Command Centers with 8 workers (which is the build I use) is one of the strongest things they have going for them when you talk about ramp up.

If you’re having issues with supply blocking, you can always have a third SCV to help build the depots, not necessarily giving him his own to build to help the other two build faster.

Just some general tips for Swann and Mengsk players. Mass build is super strong, use it!

Tanks have one of the best ranges, for them to start dying you would have to on purpose drop them into enemy line.

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Another note is if you are ahead of the curve (not supply blocked), it’s quicker overall for 2 SCVs to independently make their own depots then to tandem build 2 of them (see chart in link)

8 SCVs does bring the bt of CCs down to 20s…

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Just want to make sure. Did you put your only 8 tanks and that herc in one control group, and only use unload on unit to unload those tanks?

I don’t play him much but doesn’t seem to take that long to get mass Thor (w/ science + herc + laser) going. Practice on Void Thrashing to get your macro up

You must go vespene drone cost reduction and immortality protocol in masteries

That sounds like a rather slow completion of VT if you’re able to do mass Thor.

Yeah I’ve gotten a lot better at this (if you haven’t seen my other thread, I’ve played 77 games of Swann in the last 5-6 days). My fav strategy has been to use the ARES bots as my vanguard and dropping tanks behind them. Not brilliant stuff obviously, but it’s extremely effective.

Still, tanks ARE fragile. Unlike, say, Dekaka or Abathur which are nearly unstoppable, Swann’s tanks are a much more tactical strategy. If there’s too many flying units, or a larger wave then expected, it’s easy to lose tanks and have the rhythm disrupted. And losing even a few tanks cuts down the overall damage significantly.

Use his topbar well and there not much left for your units to deal with. :wink:

Try to use Sci Vessel’s defensive Matrix on them (in addition to their healing). It may behoove you to put more mastery points into Immortality Protocol. They rebuild on the spot, so no need to have to move/transport new Tanks fresh from the Factories. Also no need to pay more to build new Tanks, and clog up the production queues.

However, you will need to have extra supply on hand since IIRC, starting the IP build incurs extra supply, but goes back down after it’s done.

It is, with really bad macro clocked 16:50 Brut with lvl 12 Dehaka teammate

But with better macro prob could shave at least a minute. Then, begin to be competitive with random pub, and get to have fun with Thors

And yes, yes, have done ~13 minutes without really trying - but not really interested in speedrun, more in commanders I want to play

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Just wanna make sure that you know the way to unload units is to press the unload hotkey on the herc rather than pressing it on the ground.

Since as long as my mind is clear, I hardly had any casualties with my tanks, even in some tricky brutations.

Thus, to me, they are not.

Really? What’s the difference? (Unload on the herc vs on ground).

Unload on herc allow you to unload and spread your cargo at the same time, also it does not require the herc to reach the exact loaction you pressed.