Stetmann's Stetzone and why should you NOT give Stetzone to your ally base

Co-op Missions Discussion
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I enjoy playing Stetmann and he’s probably one of my favorites commanders for several reasons: Super Gary, Stetzone, his units,… they check all of my personal marks but I’m not here for that.
What I noticed from playing with randoms is people generally EXPECT a Stetmann to spread Stetzone to their base, and while this is situational beneficial, Blue Stetzone does not work as straight forward as what most people seems to perceive it to be.

An Explanation on mining efficiency:

There was a Reddit post recently that touched on a similar topic: <https://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft2coop/comments/bu7z39/a_little_tidbit_about_2121_worker_saturation/

The main take away from that reddit post is: The first worker is +100%, the second worker is another +100% since it can smoothly switch with the first worker, but the third worker only adds about +50% due to the workers’ having to wait on each other. So a 3rd worker only add half of mining value to a mineral patch compared to the other two, therefore any 3rd worker should be sent to far mineral patches while maintaining 2 workers on each close mineral patches to get the most value out of your workers.

How does Stetzone affect mineral line?

Stetzone increase worker movement speed only, it does not make a worker harvest faster, it does not increase the income limit of a saturated base, it simply makes a worker move and return from a mineral patch faster. Stetmann himself benefits most from this while his ally only get 50% benefit.

What this boils down to is a mineral patch and a geyser only needs 2 workers to reach max or very close to max saturation while under the effect of Blue Stetzone, meaning if you have 14/21 at main mineral patch, it is mining as much as 19/21; a 2/3 gas is as much as 3/3 gas. The number 14 is very important for this topic. To make the best use of Blue Stetzone, a player can stay 14 workers on mineral line and 2 workers per gas geyser for the first few minutes of the game (ideally before 4:00 mark, while Gary is offline) and have the same mining rate as a fully saturated main base while teching up and expanding.

How does Blue Stetzone affect commanders?

More than half of commanders will not gain much, if any, value out of Blue Stetzone because the window of benefit is long gone by the time it takes for Stetllites to spread to their main. The main reason is that when commander have exceeded 14 workers, Blue Stetzone becomes less and less useful.

How to determine if Stetzone is actually useful for a commander?

Someone who knows about Build Orders better than me said this:

the commanders that could benefit from stet speed zones early (assuming skilled players, etc) are the mineral limited fast expand commanders. As the biggest benefit is using the mineral boost to get a faster CC and faster expand which itself gives an additional boost."

In my own understanding, if a commander has any of the following tool, they will not need Blue Stetzone as much as commanders that do not have said tools, distance is also an important factor to consider:

  • Autogas: saves 6 workers, meaning the player will pass 14 workers within the first minute while you’re spreading Stetllites to their base.

  • Fast worker production: Chrono Boost, Zagara Twin Drone allow reaching saturation much earlier than usual, making Blue Stetzone useless within the first minute.

  • Distance between 2 player bases: Depending on map, it would take between 3 or 6 Stetllites to reach your ally base, the more Stetllites it takes to reach your ally, the longer it takes, the less benefit they will gain.

With these factors in play, here’s a category of commanders based on if the effort to spread Stetzone to them is worth it:

Yes:

  • Kerrigan: Slow larva production rate + losing worker to make building means her worker count will stay low long enough to gain benefit.

  • HnH: Their expand method requires mineral, relatively slow worker production.

  • Swann: same as HnH but he has slightly faster worker production thanks to the last revamp.

  • Tychus: Mineral is his main bottleneck so Stetzone is a welcome boost

  • Raynor: MULEs mine independently from workers so Raynor uniquely gain a bit more income from faster MULEs.

Maybe:

  • Stukov: He is an edge case, botherline Yes category but I put him here solely because his Broodling expand method doesnt consume mineral.

  • Artanis, Karax, Alarak, Fenix: All have Chrono boosting their worker production so distance will be the deciding factor if spreading Blue Stetzone is worth it or not. It gets tricky with Karax and Alarak as both can open their expo rock very early, opening more mineral patches to mine from that could use Stetzone at expo.

  • Abathur and Dehaka: These two are a special case, technically they will gain from Blue Stetzone but their unique Hero/Monstrosity gameplay makes them care very little about their economy. Why bother with extra minerals when you could roll over the map with unstoppable Hero monsters.

No:

  • Nova, Vorazun, Zeratul, Zagara: Not much explanation here, these commanders saturated extremely quick so spreading Stetzone to them is useless.

So what should you do if your ally does not benefit from Blue Stetzone?
Definitely not spreading Stetzone to their base, that would be like giving grocery money to your rich friend: they dont need it. Spread those Stettlites out to gain vision, a Karax would love to have permanent vision on the map, Alarak can Overcharge Stettliles to kill Amon force with no risk,… There are so many commanders that can make use of the vision Stetllites gives it would take a guide to list them all. Dont stay on Blue Stetzone all game when all of your bases are saturated, it does not give any eco boost in that case. Use Super Gary more aggressively, that guy is capable of solo maps with the help of Stellite Overcharges and a bit of kiting. Stetmann is much more than just a guy that gives you a Blue Stetzone that you may or maynot benefit from.

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Even the benefit is small, it is still better than nothing until saturated. In most map, it only requires a few Stetllites to reach ally’s main base. Your ally can also transfer extra workers to his expansion.

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It is exactly because the benefit is so small, that makes it not worth it: if your ally is on top of their macro, they do not gain much from it; and if your ally have poor macro, they are likely wont be able to make good use of it either. The opportunity cost of spreading Stetllites to your ally base vs gaining map vision or spreading toward your expo is heavily lopsided toward the latter.

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I really like the fact you took the time to give a relatively comprehensive explanation that most players may not know regarding the game mechanic of Stetelites.

I disagree with your comment of:

While the benefit is small, it isn’t lost. Having zone effect coverage is important:

  1. Definitively your ally will gain some economic benefit (outlined by your topic), especially considering not every player uses optimal build order to start with.
  2. Coverage can save much loss of workers for some newer players like on RtK, who may not be experienced enough (though it isn’t your problem but why not help when you can).
  3. The extra spread of Stetelite is extremely limited in its use. As no real experienced player would do the following:
  • As Karax waste energy on killing the first reachable enemy base/objective or alternatively kill wave 1 far out before they get to main.
  • No Alarak would waste the first OC to not break expansion rock over killing the same aforementioned area.
  • No Stukov would similarly not waste the Infested Structure doing the same aforementioned thing.

So while it is true they don’t technically benefit much if at all, depending on their build order. There is no real incentive to spread further. In my own Stetmann build order, long before 4min for Super Gary, I have Hive ready. This in turn not only allows me to reach my ally’s base, their expansion, and I can spread to the first objective/enemy base. So when Super Gary comes at 4min, I simply Teleport to it and waste enemy away.

Before anyone who thinks Stetmann needs vision towards his own expansion, they need to learn how to optimally expand. If you are a player who is wasting their Stetelite charges making a highway for your Mecha Drones to the expansion, then that’s the real travesty of a waste.

This has never affected my gameplay nor will it improve by any meaningful way if I went “stingy” by not giving my ally the zone. On the other hand, however small a gesture, it is an act of cooperation. I have yet to see someone not appreciating the zone coverage.

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My examples on what allies could do with Stellites does not strictly applies to the first calldown, once Stetllites are spread they are there for the rest of the game. After playing Zeratul extensively at his release I’ve come to realize how powerful the vision his Watchers really is to an ally that can use it, hence my emphasis on permanent vision > marginal eco gain for ally. What bothers me is my ally does not make use of the vision when they could, I had a Karax looked at the 2nd base in RtK then proceeded to breaking his expo with cannons.

On RtK map topic, I first identify the race, then use Stetllites to scout for AI comp to decide how many Spine Crawler I should make to deal with the first wave (2 for AirTerran, 3 for ShadowTech for example) then move Crawlers to break rocks. Once Super Gary comes out he’s gonna mow down all relevant anti air on the map while Corruptors happily puke on shards. If I let the first attack wave move into any mineral line then there was something seriously wrong in the first place or I intentionally let it happen. Pushing with Super Gary is when ally participant through my mentioned examples would be helpful and yet most did not do so.

As for this, this is merely a difference in perspective. For me, a needless act of goodwill is still needless, but I appreciate help when I need it.

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Also the main reason why I decided to write this topic in the first place is to spread awareness of what Blue Stetzone actually is after meeting many people who asked for Blue Stetzone while playing commanders on my No list, even had a Zeratul ragequitted over it yesterday, which is amusingly silly. I also heard story of teamkilling after being explained why Blue Stetzone is not needed so there is a concerning lack of understanding within the general public about this topic.

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I assume most of my allies won’t care about the complexities of stetzones, so I also would spread my stetallites to them just as a gesture of good will.

I guess from now on I will ask Nova, Vorazun, Zeratul, & Zagara allies if they want stetzones in their base or on the map faster?

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I did what I could, I’d encourage you to decide on this yourself after reading my post.

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This is exactly the problem.

No matter how you play Stetmann, you’ll have plenty of Stetelite to gain vision long before Super Gary on any of the missions. So to you it is an empty-gesture, but to others (and I’d say arguably rightfully so) it is the right thing to do.

Your entire premise hinges on your ally can make better use of the vision, so we can even break this down:

  • Raynor - Doesn’t need it. Banshee for rock/wave 1, Hyperion can Jump anywhere.
  • Kerrigan - No, she’ll benefit from some much more.
  • Artanis - No. Depending on opening. Using Orbital Strikes, resource is too tight to make units (so still better from zone versus no zone). Zealot opening, they are focused on breaking rock, so no point at all to have that extra vision since they can Orbital Strike Wave 1 when it comes in closer.
  • Swann - Absolutely better with zone. TL opening is intense on mineral. Early Drill opening restricts SCV saturation. So both better for zone. Vision not useful until Drill is up or ARES, so at least 4min.
  • Vorazun - She gets minimal benefit, but she can’t do anything until 3min. Shadow Guard always used for expansion then enemy base (possible exception on SoA but if you haven’t spread zones on SoA then… lord lol).
  • Zagara - Minimal benefit, except she can’t drop anything out of the blue so… why not? What are you going to do before 4min without Super Gary? Kill enemies with your Stetelites?
  • Karax - Yes, he early expands, always short on minerals. Can strike down wave 1 any time, vision unhelpful without army follow up for a 2-3min early push. Again, why aren’t you zoning him?
  • Abathur - Brutalisk up way before min. It can Tunnel anywhere, so no point in vision or even heal. So why not zone Econ?
  • Alarak - First OC on expansion, often 1st Pylon long up before your Stetelite get to anywhere near enemy. So why aren’t you helping your ally yet again?
  • Nova - Nobody is going to drop their Marine or a Griffin Strike near enemy base before 4min. So again whyyy?
  • Stukov - He not only benefits from zone but also from vision. Although I’ve never seen anyone prefer vision by breaking rock with Infested Structure and cast Apocalisk elsewhere.
  • Anyway, I’d go on but the point is very clear - the actual benefit of vision over the minimal economic boost is, in fact, just as minimal.

So we boil it down to the “perspective” you alluded to. What you feel perhaps logical isn’t necessarily correct. To use your example of grocery money for your rich friend. The gesture is more important than the actual result. Sure they may not need it despite logic, yet they’d like you better and have a better game.

On the other hand, your persistence in “no, I won’t give you zone, here is why (insert noob potentially)” will definitely piss off a few less understanding people. Ultimately, it affects your gameplay experience. For such a small and factually correct yet meaningless gesture, it’s actually quite ironic why anyone would go to such lengths just to NOT give Stetelite zone benefit.

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On some maps, you can have it there within 60 seconds. By that time, terran commanders other than Swann are at a total of 15 SCVs with number 16 half done. That is more than enough time to get benefit if they have any intention of getting gas, not to mention some of those SCVs will be building things.

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Personally, I’d gladly take minimal benefit over 0 benefit(or give if I’m playing Stetmann).
I’m greedy and every single mineral matters to me.

I rarely feel like I’m short on Stetellites when I use Super Gary’s zone to push aggressively anyways.

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Understanding Stetmann’s zone benefit is like understanding holding the door open for someone. It rarely has actual meaning (like people in wheelchair, new mom with stroller, etc.) but many people do it because it’s nice. The small benefit some get (where others may have to hurry to even receive the gesture) is factually meaningless, yet nobody’s ever said “well golly gee, thanks for holding the door open when I could have”.

The few that do, we all know what kind of person they are… The analogy takes this further that the few out of those few - stops at the door, doesn’t hold it open, and then proceeds to tell people why it is meaningless to hold it open.

Like I said OP :slight_smile:, we can appreciate the indepth explanation (the content is appreciated, like the gesture). However, the facts and logic of it isn’t everything.

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Spreading stetalite is one time job. Why not do the favor for the last?

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It’s up to anyone what he/she does in-game.

But thanks to Kane for explaining that rushing Stetellites to your ally has sometimes a minimal the effect, and sometimes it’s completely useless. You always have to decide yourself whether it’s worth it based on the map, your build, allied commander and mutators.

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I think the most elegant solution here is to make all townhall structures generate stetzone when Stetmann is in the party. That way no one gets to complain about sharing.

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Or you could be one of those people who gets offended that the door wasn’t held open for you, proceed to rip the door off its hinges and beat the crap out of the guy with said door.

And then destroy your own base/leave the game. Because facts/logic.

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In a perfect world, that wouldn’t be a concern. I recently played as Stetmann with a Zegara ally. I asked if it was alright for me to get faster stetzones on the map of MO instead of their base. My ally politely responded that he/she would prefer I stetzone the hatchery first, so I respectfully did.

I try to feel things out first. You really never know how people will respond to you not holding open a door, unless they directly tell you that they don’t care.

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The stettelites are generally speaking plentiful and covering an ally base is more about a show of good intentions than it is about that extra mineral/gas.

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At first I used to expand satellites to my ally’s base too, but then after knowing of full saturation and no effects I decided that I would expand my satellites elsewhere like the front or even my own expo.

Anyway I haven’t played Stetman for a LONG time. Not fond of him or the last commanders.

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I like this one. I suppose it’s somewhat like saying “glhf”, it’s just polite/nice.

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