So there are healing shrines or fountains like in wc3 for some maps ? they went from wind or some slow down fields to this. P.S Town Hall is a unit category or a flag (I know the editor too to some extent). A unit with this flag is seen as a ‘main building’ to return resources to, so it is for all main buildings of all races
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There have been for a while, they were never allowed to be used until recently for map making
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Never thought they would allow such thing in the game because that questions the advantage of who can heal like zerg from creep or terr by heal.
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Does introduce some interesting map mechanics though.
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A quick thought on the cyclone change, apparently you are nerfing the damage because they are too oppressive early, but buffing hp so that they can scale late.
If you want them to scale, ideally the hp bonus would come later. Through an upgrade. Changing hp from 110 to 130 is a pretty serious buff. Can’t you add any new upgrades in the armory/tech lab?
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To be fair, lowering the early-game DPS might have a stronger effect on snowballing than increasing the health. Whether that is true should become clear through testing.
That is an option, if it is necessary.
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After reading the balance patch I can only say they still spit on the Terran’s face for 15 years. Terran nerf is a tradition I guess.
All races = buffs only
Terran = 50/50, some buffs some nerfs
But the nerfs are much higher than the buffs. Like what I can buy for 50 gas that I will save from building an armory? Not even a single unit in the game but all my widow mines and liberators are weaker on the battlefield now. Especially the widow mines received a huge nerf. So Terran units gets another nerfs, meanwhile other races units gets another buffs. So it’s like double nerf for Terran. Playing some units will be less effective, and playing against some units from other races will be even more less effective.
Cyclone buff not necessary. I don’t think anyone should make more than one, two or maybe three cyclones just to prevent oracle or some weird air rush strategies…
…but the mineral field change is pretty funny. Can I actually nuke the enemy mineral fields now? Now the word “NUKEM” in my nickname will mean something!
So summarizing the changes:
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The good: general changes,
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The bad: balance changes,
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The ugly: no ultralisk bananalanced (nerfed) in this patch
And my final rating for the patch:
Lets nuke the minerals, Duke! out of 10!
The more they do the more they sink in the swamp. For me this is yet another reason to be done with the game. Imagine if BW had such changes would it not be the end for it years ago.
So they try very hard to make it like wc3 with fountains, now imagine if resources were vulnerable. Like why not, nuke that probe base along with the minerals.
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To be fair, a lot of the techniques used on Brood War maps involved new methods of creating walls, worker gates, etc. Those innovations continued long after they stopped making balance changes to units. New map features such as healing fountains are comparable to that.
As for the balance changes, I would argue that Brood War was in a better state when unit changes stopped than StarCraft II.
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@TerranicII
Protoss in SC1 is insanely OP. Even imbalanced ultralisk from SC2 can’t compare to the power of protoss in Brood War.
However also the map rotation is the problem. They doesn’t make balance patches in SC1 but they DO choose the maps that don’t allow the player to place building at some places. And the places are usually: the ramp so Terran can’t wall up, and the middle of the map so Terran can’t do a slow expansion push with mass turrets, tanks and vultures through the map.
How did the council come to the conclusion of nerfing Terran?
Everyone I knew was expecting zerg to be nerfed and toss to be buffed.
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I don’t agree with that assessment. Terran does require a critical mass of units to trade favorably, but once they have that it is a fair game.
Most Brood War maps are designed to enable a wall-off for both Terran and Protoss at the natural expansion. However, the configuration differs for every expansion, so you need to play a map at least a few times to figure out what works.
Enabling players to wall-off ramps is very difficult because of the way that ramp tiles and doodads work. It isn’t impossible, but ramp terrain tiles do not allow buildings. You could try to close off part of the gap with doodads or neutral buildings, but those usually have some gaps that allow Zerglings or Marines to squeeze through.
Do we talk about the ranked maps? They are modified to not let Terran place any wall. There are either some kind of neutral buildings placed to prevent the walling or there are used some map tilesets that works as invisible 1x1 square obstacle but successfuly prevents the building the wall.
Same goes for placing structures on the battlefield. There are invisible tiles everywhere to prevent building placements anywhere outside the expands area.
Unless you are talking about the non-ranked official Blizzard old maps. Then yeah, you can usually wall there, just depends on the starting position.
I would have to check each one. Most of the maps I recall playing (Fighting Spirit, Electric Circuit, Circuit Breaker, Andromeda, etc) do allow a full wall at the natural. I would have to test it on the current pool though.
Edit: I did just run through three of the maps:
- BlitzY
- Neo Dark Origin
- Apocolypse.
You can do a natural wall-off on those as Terran, although the amount of structures you need varies quite a bit.
Unless I messed up, Citadel cannot be fully walled off on the Northeast expansion. That one requires a Goliath or something.
Modern toss has the same issues because the same fundamental game mechanics are at play. Rts has a time component so if it takes less timr to do a task then you are advantaged. Protoss units are big, bulky, and fewer in number. That means less time required to macro, micro, position, etc.
If you have to micro 5 units instead of 10, that’s just easier. That’s protoss in a nutshell. Less mechanically gifted players gravitate toward protoss, and that’s how you end up with 1 hotkey f2 abusers punching deep in premier tournaments. Watching some of the recent iem and gsl has been very painful. If 1 hotkey toss can get to the finals, a 2 hotkey toss will never lose another game.
That’s why the recent patch is buffing zerg to the moon. The balance counsel finally conceded that serral is OP, and that toss is busted on the ladder. Increased fungal range is a huge buff vs late game protoss armies, and the baneling bombs will obliterate protoss’ mineral lines. The funny thing about these buffs is that Serral will dominate even harder. He won tons of tournaments using baneling bombs in all matchups. Now they’ve been buffed. In theory it nerfs low skill protoss and buffs high skill protoss, because low skill players won’t watch the minimap & pull workers in time. VS high skill protoss, it won’t be worth the cost investment because they will transfer workers and/or kill the overlord before it unloads. It’s smart; it adds mechanical difficulty to protoss. But, don’t expect a protoss to win a premier tournament anytime soon, because there is no protoss in the same universe as serral.
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Buffing Zerg to the moon = finding out that they went too far with the banelings and infestor nerfs in one patch so they went back on part of the infestor nerf. The real issue is the liberator range nerf, thors are absolutely going to dumpster on them. It’s going to be like using broods 
. QQ ladders going to be filled with mech and protoss players.
Liberator nerf has been a long time coming. Zerg has no real answer to liberator ghost. Mine nerf makes no sense. Mines are weak as is. Clem tries to make them work and they just don’t. Mine nerf helps zerg way more than it helps toss. Fungal is net buffed. Keeps range and requires no upgrade. Baneling and lurker attacks 100x more powerful with the ability to hit from any angle. Doom drops are an option now too. Queen allins buffed. Imagine the typical queen ling bane allin vs toss but now with speed overlords. Zergs buffed like crazy in the new patch.
Liberator nerf makes mass cyclone better in tvt. Mech qqers probably didn’t have the apm for liberator-shuffling anyway. Way easier to f2 a cyclone blob. They play mech cuz they suck lets be real. New patch buffs mech for most players.
A lot of my allin builds are massively buffed. Worker attack range is buff to drone pull allins, nerf to cannon rushes. Same for worker collision radius. Zerg rocks adds tons of mind games. Ability to kill mineral patches punishes turtle players. Aggression is the weakest way to play zerg by far. Easily tge weakest style in game for any race. Now it’s better because you have more guaranteed damage by killing the minerals. Proxy hatch buffed with more creep. All zerg allins better vs terran with lib and mine nerf.
Best of all, sentry buff is buff to zerg because protoss are dumpster players and won’t have 1/100th the skill needed to do mass sentry play. They will try anyway and it’s just free wins for days. All talented protosd left sc after the ravager qas added. Just stating the facts. I can’t think of 1 toss on the ladder I am scared of except the f2 abusers who mass storm and carriers, and their sc2-prowess isn’t what’s scary. Go back to mass sentry days and these players are bronze. I used to beat mape and rocker 50% but now both are basically untouchable with f2 aclick skill.
Poor snake was 6.2k and is now 5.1k while f2 abusers are hitting mmr records. Shake my head.
Batz been drinking that Reddit cool-aid. Terran doesn’t start WM production until armoury is already on the way, and a second factory is always made, so you’re just left with the radius nerf that affects TvZ, except this is a non-factor for any professional that already splits against WMs effectively. A minor setback for them keeping the baneling nerf in play and now it’s likely Terran will always have the upgrade advantage.
TvP is however going to be a nightmare. Terrans never get a second factory for a singular upgrade. The vision that cloaked WMs provides is essential for dealing with mass zealot runbys. Now gateway men can continue playing extremely greedy, neglect a robo and f2 a move to their hearts content. Have you noticed that top terran players aren’t getting armour upgrades because builds are so gas starved?
I have literally played against Toss players that see a setup of mines and just continue with their mass zealot attack and laugh. When I play against Zerg they’re pre-splitting everything and still lose engagements.
It’s the bio player that relies on liberators. The turtle terran sieges his tanks, builds a PF at his third, and changes his thors to single target mode and just waits. I’ve never used rapid fire for IM but if liberators are not a viable answer to mech, then it might be a necessity. Bio players love the current cyclone because it delays viking production indefinitely and allows us to out multitask slower players.
haha no. This is directly from triggered protoss players dealing with ebay blocks. Any other build with a proxy (2 rax, 3 rax, cannon rush w/e) abuses terrain to punish a worker pull. This change makes it so that you don’t have to continuously issue attack commands on the SCV as it sways from one side to the other. Protoss players loved to sit on the moral highground after the observer speed nerf but this is more petty.
In 3v3s, I open 4 sentry with a double expand into a 6 min stalker timing with a ~6k valued army. This trounces on the usual double stargate phoenix play, allows me to scout what the opponent is doing (which twilight doesn’t allow) and also baits people into attacking my third where I can abuse sentries to the max. My biggest concern were adepts and oracles, something that the plebs in team games never use, so this play has now all the advantages with no disadvantages, lmao.
Even serral takes a big mine hit on occasion. Radius nerf is a flat reduction to mine efficiency in all interactions. Visibility nerf means better splitting and reduced mine efficiency in all scenarios except when zerg isn’t paying attention. Visibility nerf makes little difference to toss. Toss units too slow to reactively split. Maybe it helps stalkers a bit but they already counter mines.
Mine defense vs zealot runbies was bad already. 1 mine softens the scvs for the zealots to shred. Bunker and scv hold position 100x betyer. Terrans vulnerability is to warp prisms in the main. Mine nerf changes nothing substantial about tvp defense.
Liberator range nerf is way more problematic. Terran will have no answer to mass disruptor. Mark it in your calendar. TvP will be unwinnable vs blink stalker disruptor. When it happesn, come back here and read this: i told you so.
Innovations favorite mech was liberator thor. It hard countered all of terran. Ape-terrans of today don’t have the skill to make it work.
I beat gms all day with drone pull allins of many varieties. Got parting several times. You’re telling me a reduced worker radius and double attack range makes no difference? Keep dreaming. You are talking to the drone pull expert.
One of the best games I ever played vs him allowed me to beat his proxy robo build because he thought I was drone pull allining. I was transferring to my third and he prioritized finishing his wall. His proxy was weaker becauseof it and he lost. That’s how terrified he was pf my drone pull allins. Rogue eventually caught on and tried it. He did it wrong and it failed.
Yes sentry buff will reshape pvp into mass sentry turtling. I can’t decide if archon or colossus will be better. You need a way to bust the forcefields but both are bad in different ways. Immortals will be a dead unit. I predict sentry disruptor stalker as the pvp unit comp of the future. Disruptors can go through the forcefields.
Disruptor in general is protoss best unit in all matchups. Alphastar trounced serral with it. It just takes skill to use and most players can’t use it as well as alphastar did. You shoot out balls, blink forward to pick off retreating units, walk balk with more ball coverage. Not rocket science, but definitely op in the new patch in pvp and pvt. Defensive forcefields could ironically hurt a protosss ability to split vs disruptors.
We’ll see. New patch gives me hope. They are headed in the right direction, just not fsst enough for my liking. When Snake is restored to 6k mmr is when I will know protoss is no longer busted. So long as f2 abusers are the best protoss players, sc2 will remain a minor hobby for me, with zero interest in pro play. Just saw dark vs classic on pigs channel and the f2 abuse couldnt be more clear. 6600 toss legit f2ing his whole army. Dark didn’t bother unloading the nydus because most players could shut it down ez. F2 abuser let it go up and stay up for 10 or 20 seconds longer than it should. This is what we have to expect in future protoss games so count me out, lmao. 40 mi ute game of a toss f2ing his army around. Only interaction that actually matters in the 15 sexond fight at the end of the game which the tossthrows in the most fave palming manner. Legit alicks his archons to their death vs lurkers. They had 1 job and that was to keep the carriers alive. 40 minute game thrown in 15 seconds with gold league play. Talk about a waste of time.
I feel sorry most of all for the casters. They hated having to fill time at the start of each game, and that’s why the 12 worker start became a thing. Now they get to fill time for 40 minutes while nothing of substance happens. It’s so painful listening to the gsl casters trying to hype all these meaningless interactions. Let’s just fast-forward to the last 15 seconds and see who wins for crying out loud.
I have never seen a crybaby bigger than you ever in my life. You are the most biased person ever. Yes Libs need nerf, nothing can approach them, nothing. There were situations when a Lib at the mineral line had a position with direct target to the workers and there was nothing you could do to kill it. So yes, it is a good thing they nerfed it. And yes considering that terran has ghosts you need libs to kill faster some ultras? Maybe you want a third unit invented just for you to make it easier ? I know, it was easy for you, just siege mode on and walk in with the ghosts like you are in a park relaxing or something. Yes it is ok they nerfed widow mine, is not normal to kill 30+ lings in one shot, give me a break.
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