Well basically the title.
Its lame as hell and all my friends quit playing because of it.
11 Likes
don’t you know that harassment is the exciting thing in SC2?
don’t you have a phone? LUL
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ive never got the point of this complain.
like… every harrass you can defend, IF you see it early enough. if f.e. a drop surprises you - you have to work on your map vision/awareness.
its easy to blame the game for your mistakes. its harder to aknowledge, that youre responsible yourself.
5 Likes
You didnt get the point because you are short minded.
It is clear that the game nowadays is focused almost solely in worker harrass. BW was not like that. It had the worker harrass principle very clear but you had other kinds of battles. All this because the efficiency of worker harrass increased in the mid game not in the early game. In BW you have time to choose a build order…to think about the opening you are doing. The worker harrass would come but later.
In SC2 you have a very early worker harrass leading to an unforgiven and annoying game ending.
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Shutting down harassment is one of the most satisfying parts of Starcraft.
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wrong. it isnt. its annoying at best.
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this isnt really true. yes, worker harrass is a big part of the game, but this goes for everygame, where youre depending on a healthy eco to produce stuff. so its not like sc2 is the exception on that field.
and no, im not short minded. again, you can shut down EVERY harrass, if you see it early enough. sure, there might be situations, where youre just unlucky, but thats also a part of the game. and this goes for both sides. simple things like “fake go at natural, while harrass at 3rd at the same time” works so good even until mid masters. improve on map awareness and multitasking, and you wont have so many losses on eco. thats btw a reason, why serral is so godlike. he sees like… everything coming his way and thats why almost noone is able to do dmg to him.
I wouldn’t mind the concept if it wasn’t so painfully broken that when you lose a few you’re basically out of the game.
in BW you could lose a lot of workers, but still have a good fighting chance back into the game.
GL with that in SC2 Top kek.
2 Likes
Not even being sexually harassed at work is as annoying as worker harass in starcraft
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I have masters with all 3 races with very low harass styles, especially as Terran. If harass is dominating the game, it’s more likely you are falling short at something else.
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I think it’s more that defending harass takes a lot more effort than harassing.
In some cases, it’s a balance issue, such as with Widow Mine drops being done all game. EVentually, one will get through and wipe a Mineral Line completely out and all the Terran has to do is shift click drop whereas the Protoss has to split his probes up to 4x within a second to not lose all their probes. And this is multiplied by the bases being mine dropped.
It’s unrealistic to expect a player to micro out of 2-3 shift click drops with mines against mineral lines at the same time.
To that end I think the balance team needs to work on making game ending harass more risky. If your plan is to basically backstab all game until the opponent falls apart, you should need some crazy skill to do it.
TLDR
Harass is fine, brain dead multi prong shift click harass is not.
2 Likes
Yes, terran’s over-emphasis on mass-harass is killing the game. They are untouchable with siege units and mass static defense, meanwhile it does not matter how many spores you build a liberator can still kill drones with siege-and-forget micro. To this day, top zergs still drop games vs the first 4 hellions and the first liberator - imagine the outrage if the reverse could happen. If Terrans died to zergs on 2 bases from a mere 550 mineral investment there would be riots on the forums.
3 Likes
Yeah because added more harassment units like liberator, or adepts. And less minerals per bases, game is now only about killing workers. You can have gold micro, but if you are killings workers you winning. It allows worse players to win the game. Also 90% games is revolving about killing workers, no more about army fights and army positioning, map control and strategical macro games and tactics.
I used to split map with cc at half and beat players with 400 apm in master-gm, when i had only 150. And triple nukes silo and ravens. Where is this gameplay. Game of attrition, macro games, positional games like chess, strategy.
Whole game basically is micro mechanic fest now and worker killing simulator and all in craft 2 and zergcraft 2
To be fair, that style was removed because it was extremely unhealthy for the game. Turtle Raven was one of the darkest eras in sc2’s history. Right next to BL Infestor in WoL and Tankivacs in LotV.
There needs to be balance, harass needs to exist but it also needs to take more effort and be more risky so people can’t just turtle into a 2 hour long game.
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DURRRR other guy kill mai worker den I lose HERP DERP must be because game design is wrong I quitz dis gaem but nevar quiztz dis foremz!
Thank you for your contribution.
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Um yes considering that economy is important in an RTS game wow omg killing workers is important? Badly designed video game CLEARLY.
Personally I see way more macro games than cheese/all-ins anyways sooo…
Also there are plenty of situations in a 1v1 where you can kill a bunch of workers and die anyways, IE you still can’t kill your opponents army or he’s turtling hard or w.e.
I know, imagine all the low masters zergs complaining it took a whole 5 ravagers to win a few of their games before it even started, while failing to realize there was nothing stopping them from taking a third as well.
This applies to basically every race lol. So many people, including pros don’t grab bases behind their aggression when they really should. That was the best advice I have ever listened to when it comes to sc2. Thanks PiG!
I do agree harrass should be viable.
But as stated in the thread it shouldnt be game ending like it is now.
A unit is either good because it can harrass, or bad because it cant.
Also just because it is possible to defend versus every type of opener and harrass doesnt make it viable.
You need different reactions to different builds. The earlier the harrass hits the harder it is to scout.
From oracle rushes to dt pressure, from widow mine drops to hellion harrass, from ling runby’s to nydus+Sh.
All these things can be stopped. All these things can be countered. But even if you miss one of these units, 1 mine, 1 undetected dt, 1 undetected nydus. And its basically game over.
I understand that they want to make the game more cassual friendly by allowing cassuals to harrass aswell, its like a gateway to get people to harrass more with multiple units.
But the overemphasis that started during lotv. Really took a turn for the worse.
I just simply dont play sc2 that much anymore because of this. Eventho i have over 15k games played in the past.
WoL was the least harrass focussed game. HotS opened up new ways to harrass, just enough to be fun and challenging yet not overly abusive.
LotV made so many changes that made harrass so much better and easier to do.
Entire strategies are built around harrassing asmuch as possible even.
Terrans are only winning games due to harrass these days. And by that standard terran can never be overbuffed. Imagine if terran had less access to harrass. What kind of buffs would be possible.
Just take a look at the current itteration of the adept.
Its basically never used because of its overfocus on harrassing mineral lines. It became completely useless in any other state of the game due to this.
3 Likes
I mean.,…I literally watched Winter lose all but 3 workers in a 1v1 and still win. If you think worker harass is why you are losing, please think again (or have someone else think for you)