It isn’t just about the Carriers. The Carriers are the broken piece of the whole. Fixing the Carrier would make late game winnable for those of us who aren’t 7K players.
1 Like
But the thread is about a carrier. You can make another discussion about storms, archons, voidrays, toss lategame. But this one is explicitly about carriers.
And if you do make a thread about toss lategame I will as always say that pvz is a coin flip. If protoss plays ground, he struggles, if toss plays sky, zerg struggles. So, I see no problem in nerfing toss air, as long, as toss ground will be buffed, such as removing 5 hp from banelings, so that storms could actually kill them.
2 Likes
The Carriers are the broken piece of the puzzle, though. It’s what MAKES Protoss broken in the late game, actually, it’s the Tempest AND the Carrier. Remove either one, and Protoss has a much more palatable late game.
You saying Carriers can be countered by Corruptors is akin to saying Marines aren’t good because the Colossus exists.
1 Like
Remove tempest? Funny, when a terran suggest removing a unit, which a direct counter of ranged libs, which otherwise can’t be beated… I always thought that the problem were storms, which are protected by carriers and not the carriers itself. Their damage per hit is really low and gets even worse if the opponent hasn’t forgotten about making armor upgrades (such as most zergs, who go for attack upgrades for corruptors first, even if carriers have a damage of 5).
And you still miss the point. I did not say that carriers are weak, I said that corruptors can kill aclick carriers with aclick.
1 Like
I don’t love Storm, but it’s 100% necessary for Protoss to have.
“Beaten”
And the counter to Libs is to walk around it lol.
Carriers counter the Lib just as well, but as I said, either can be removed and create a much more palatable late game.
Remove Tempest and I’d be willing to Sacrifice Range on Libs as an, I think fair, exchange.
I would not agree that you can move around ranged libs so easily, especially when there are +10 of them, but without ranged libs, there would still be broodlords 
, which again can’t be countered by protoss ground, without tempest. It is actually weird that you bring tempest in, as it is a unit, which works same as tanks, it requires an oracle to give it constant vision on opponents air units, which requires somewhat micro from toss and additional keybind for oracle. So I can’t understand at all, what makes that unit imba, as it has huge overkill, low firerate and is only good to focus some keyunits, such as vipers, if you have vision of course.
2 Likes
As I said, either or. IF the Tempest HAS to exist (BTW Broods pre-dated the Tempest by several years), the Carrier can go. You do need one or the other, the problem is you have both… No player not named Maru stands a chance against that (Hell, cure lost to freaking HARSTEM because the game went on too long).
Well, no one can forbid you to wish that. I haven’t seen that game, do you have to the link? I just want to see how terran managed to lose against carrier-tempests
3 Likes
Siege Tanks Need to go too because even when the Game is clearly lost and reynor outbased and outnumbered time by far He still couldnt Break terran Turtle 
you either Need liberator as a siege unit or siege Tank. The Problem is you have both 
and Ghosts. One of those Units needs to Go.
1 Like
IDK I’ll try to find it if I can. Can you not agree it’s more than a little bit ridiculous that I can beat players 500-1K higher than my main with my off race (provided it makes it to the late game)?
Notice we were having a civil discussion and you HAD to interject your stupid opinions again?
It was also a civil opinion. Take a chill pill. If protoss loses a unit because of stupid Design 1 terran unit has to Go too. There are plenty of toxic Designs in StarCraft.
1 Like
I already said I was willing to sac Lib range.
My sentences were coherent. Can’t say the same for yours.
Nah. We want equality. Carrier gets removed as Well as Ghost and Viper. Now thats a fair Deal
Idk about that after you chicken Out of the lethe fight
I think you responded to yourself intead of me. I think that any mention of a t3 unit with a price of 250 / 175 with a ground dps a bit higher than of a single marine and air dps lower than marines as an imbalanced unit can’t be taken seriously. Therefor, I will never agree to any kind of tempest nerfs or even removal.
1 Like
That’s one of the main reasons why Tempests were added. Brood Lord + Infestor could zone out and destroy any composition that didn’t have equivalent or longer range, so Protoss didn’t have a reliable way to fight the composition.
The Vortex spell on Motherships was the only thing Protoss had in WOL with the range to threaten Brood Lord + Infestor compositions, and anyone familiar with WOL can remember how much of a coin-flip that was. Protoss either destroyed everything with a Vortex filled with Archons, or they lost.
3 Likes
I am not entirely sure.
I think Farbros has a different opinion, it’s clearly a L2P problem.
or?
It happened consistently.
Brood Lords easily zoned out all ground. Infestors (at least at that time with root fungal and Infested Terran) could trap and kill any other units. If the targeted units didn’t have longer range (10+ or so), then they couldn’t touch the Brood Lords or the Infestors. That’s why Protoss had to gamble with Vortex.
For Terran, Vikings could sometimes gets shots off on the Brood Lords, but if the opponent was paying attention they could fungal to trap those units to be killed by Infested Terran, repeated Fungals, or Corruptors.
My opinion is no different. Tempest is required to fight ranged libs and broodlords, battlecruisers (some might say, that terrans never build them, but tempest are the reason for that). It is balanced by huge overkill with low fire rate, which results in low dps, but huge range. So with vision from oracle (micro) and focus fire (micro), tempest can kill key units or force the opponent to engage, instead of siting behind ranged libs or broodlords. Because of the price it has and some micro requirements to make it work, I think that its abilities are pretty balanced.
1 Like
They nerfed Instant Fungal, though, which was the truly broken piece of that puzzle and the Infested Terran is no longer a thing. The Oracle also made counter play more accessible, via revelation and Feedback. High Templar and Disruptor give you more hard counters to Infestor than you know what to do with (now that the Infested Terran no longer disrupts the pathing).
The entire point of this was that Protoss late game is too easy. You want something removed from other players to remain just as easy.
Still down.
Of course you won’t. You like having 9 APM in the late game, destroying opponents far better than yourself, then patting yourself on the back like it’s some kind of accomplishment.