Skytoss OP. How to counter?

So I’m a Tier 3 Diamond Zerg. 90% of the time I face a protoss, they go skytoss and I lose. They turtle until they mass their armada and just A move anything to death.

Last game I lost against an 85 APM protoss with 1-0-0 upgrades while I was 3-3 with hydras, infestors and vipers at nearly 200 apm. And I lost.

How the hell do I counter those stupid broken units? Microing vipers and infestors is hard as hell, while the protoss has little to no micro at all.

This is very frustrating. I feel like this is rather broken, at least in my league.

Thanks.

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Thing is, what type of skytoss did they have? Did they have mass carriers and no voidray? If so, go corruptor viper and maybe infestor. Did they add voidrays into the mix? You can either abduct or use hydras in the mix with that comp. Did they add HT? you def need infestors for some mind control or fungals, if you add infestors use microbial shroud. Have some spore forests too. It’s just a matter of time and counters. I hope this helped you well :slight_smile: Please let me know if this worked for you. As a side note, use spore forests as a wall and abduct his units into the spores and focus fire the spores on the carrier or voidray

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It really depends on what is the composition that you are looking at.

So with the lack of info, I will just do a general counter-unit analysis here:

  • Nix - Hydra / Corruptor
  • VR - Hydra / Muta (hard counter)
  • Carriers - Hydra / Corruptor

In all situations, a couple of queens are cheap and decent anti-air as well, but considering that you have an APM problem, then perhaps I’ll give them a miss.

At this point in time, some things I’d ask would be:

  • How many bases do you have?
  • How many bases does your opponent have?
  • How many spores do you have?
  • How much money do you have in your bank?
  • Where are all your tech structures built at?
  • How many larvae do you have stored up?
  • Did you A-move your hydras or shift target the carriers as you micro your casters?

All of which are crucial in determining where you went wrong. Based on your composition (and assuming if my above questions checks out well), I honestly don’t see how you would’ve lost (along with a higher level of APM).

If APM is an issue, I’d recommend Infestors rather than Vipers (and just focus on one). Neural Parasite works wonders since it’s a 2 unit deficiency for your opponent per cast (the unit is ‘lost’, and you ‘gain’ a unit temporarily), plus you can queue this up earlier with no misfiring chance. Abduct tends to be more micro heavy because you need to queue it up at the right timing, then bring your Vipers to safety while you manually target the unit down (especially for carriers because of the Interceptors).

The Viper strat is also more of a drawn out one rather than a head-on strat. The whole idea is to slowly pick away at the P army while attempting to keep them at bay with spores. Infestors are your go to for hard clashes.

The same can be said for:

  • Z who A move Ling Bane into a T bio ball who then needs to split.
  • T who can just throw EMPs and blanket the entire P army (that they need to put Templars into Prisms).

It is inaccurate to claim that “because I put in more effort / work, they should be required to do as much as well”. SC2 is an asymmetrical game. In the event where you micro well against what you are up against (along with decent strategy / composition) you will win your opponent.

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I hope that covers what you are asking for. It would be a lot easier to pin point where the issue is if you have a Youtube video of the replay though.

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Damn… you put so much effort into your posts… You are a true legend :smiley: I just wanted to say that I appreciate your effort on the forums. Anyways, umm… thanks for explaining it to him better than me. I try to put effort too but I am working on some guides for zerg and terran.

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Keep your infestors burrowed and neural any carriers. Chances are at that low level, if they are rushing skytoss, they won’t have any observers. You should have an easy picking. Corruptors are also really good too. If you see them turtle on 2 bases, I would do anything possible to prevent them from getting a third while also macroing up.

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If you are going for hydra infestor viper then you need lurker to zone ht. But that comp is also hard to control so I would recommend corruptor viper ultra instead, viper and corruptor on 1 control group to abduct and ultra on another just a moving to kill ht. EDIT: nvm about the attack click thing, the correct way to micro is have your overseers + corruptors + vipers on 1 hotkey to abduct, and another hotkey for just your corruptors. After you abduct, click back and then select your corruptor control group and focus fire. If he has voids and charges up then you can disengage, or pb and take the fight if you are really confident.

Or you can kill them early with a line bane hydra all-in. Most skytoss open void ray because they are versatile, allowing them to deny fourth, defend roaches, and make transition to carriers easier. Because of these reasons hydra ling bane all-ins are strong because they rely on 3 base saturation anyway, hydras beat voids, and ling/bane cleans up zealot/static d mineral dumps.

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Corruptors are stronger and more cost effective than Void Rays are, therefore Corruptors counter everything what belong to Protoss and flies.
The trick is to avoid Storms, and when Void Rays activate their ability - to run away.
If he was 80 APM, then he probably doesn’t have HTs, good for you. Just roll him over with corruptors.

Read more here:

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Hello Dødsferd,

I win against Skytoss only in this way:

Scout early if Toss go air: (e.g. early cannon)

Then: build 3 base nonstop worker, and then 16-20 hydras + rest of minerals in zergling and push.

At this stage the protoss have only 2 carrier or 10 void rays and both you can kill.

Use the fight to rebuild units + injects + updates. You may not kill him on first push, then you need to attack 1 minute later again with again 20 hydras. Keep agressive and never allow toss to have more than 4 carriers!

  • mass spores + lurkers good unit (vs. chargelot runbys, vs. splash damage like high templars or collossi and ground units in general. Get at least 10 lurkers - rather 20-30 vs. ground toss because protoss can just a-move immo/archon/chargelot/storm over a tiny 10-lurker + any amount of roach/hydra, if they spread out a little and have detection.
  • use hydras behind the spores to shoot at interceptors and queens to heal the spores
    –> rush vipers once you scout a robo so you can pull in collossi or carriers or tempests or disruptors or archons (the expensive stuff)
  • t3 zerg needs a TON of gas so if you don’t expand fast enough, you don’t have enough gas for corruptors, vipers and lurkers or infestors or upgrades (you’ll want all the upgrades but focus on +2 melee and ground/air armor if it’s mass air and else you’ll want damage, damage, damage)

This. Corruptor/viper/lurker is extremely strong vs. bad protosses.
Corruptors indead trade equally vs. voidrays unless they use their ability, if you have the same army value (more corruptors than voidrays or queens attacking first!)

Hello Dødsferd,

You can win against every Skytoss pretty easy as Zerg:

You need to scout very early that you fight against Skytoss, most have a cannon in front.

Then you create nonstop worker until you have ~50 and then nonstop 16 Hydra and rest Zergling

Then you have a very strong push, at a timing, where protoss have 6 voids or 2 carrier.

If you dont win on first push, prepare next push 1 minute later again with 16 hydra and zerglings

Dont let him expand and keep him on 2 bases.
Dont allow him to get more than 3-4 carriers.

Push early! Since i do that i win every skytoss, exept i miss the scouting. :wink:

Ignore other people’s comments.
It is broken ATM.
You have to kill them mid game, and can’t let it go late game.
UNLESS. You have AMAZIGN micro and Macro and have complete mastery over Vipers and Lurkers. If not you are dead by an A move Toss.
IGNORE what other nubs are saying. ANy decent toss will have a couple of voids, templars, and archons mixed in, which they can micro with 5 APM.
Zerg on the other hand cannot. You need like 300 apm to do it all correctly to kill a deathball Toss.
Good luck.

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So in other words, be Master league + to win against toss. Got it. How does blizzard get away with having one race be braindead and op while the other has to sweat to win a fight?

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They won’t balance the game because they abandoned the game about half a year ago.
You’ll have about 1-2 years max of a pro scene if the community won’t do something against it.
You’ll want to take a look at Frost Giant Studios (newsletter + a couple of videos by the pylon show, pig, tod and others).

To be fair, this depends on unit composition. I have a literal 0% winrate against skytoss, so I understand your frustration but for example terran has to do a similar amout of micro in a ling+bane VS marines fight. Different compositions require differing amounts of skill. It just so happens that all Protoss compositions are braindead easy.

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Though there is a Has and even PartinG level of protoss micro which is clearly skillful.

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