In addition to whatever else buffs you feel they should get to be more “attractive”. However, I would like people’s thoughts on the topic title regardless.
I’ll also admit, I need to learn just how they work :\ I think their regular attack is separate from their Lock-On ability?
Cyclone is a “fleeing unit”. In contrast, Tanks and Thors are “hold your ground” units. In that light, the Immortality Protocol on a Cyclone would be limited because a knocked out Cyclone would shortly be surrounded by enemies that have a great chance of destroying it.
The way it’s suppose to “work” is that you lock onto some enemy (with an ultralong range attack) and retreat outside of their attack range. This way you have permaDPS while fleeing and thus reduce incoming DPS to the Cyclones.
In practice, each enemy can have ONE auto-cast lock on. This is to prevent you from wasting all your cooldowns on a zergling, etc. Therefore you must manually cast lock on for large units like Hybrids and Capitals, etc. to make it work right. There is a “rapid-fire” setting (look it up on Youtube) that allows you to hold a key to repeat the lock on casting so you don’t have to keep mashing a key. That helps in most cases I guess.
I would probably say no to that. Even with the mastery in full at -60% for Tanks and Thors, it is pretty useless and quite costly to revive them at 50 and 80 respectively.
Of course, that is vastly cheaper than making new but again any mastery that requires the player to lose their unit first is always inferior. In this case, not only would the player lose the unit, you’d have to then not lose the salvage part… and then it still cost a bunch. Really it cannot be any worse of design.
For Cyclone to get this, it would cost 40 at full mastery to 100 without. And the benefit remains minimal, although perhaps can run away faster after… maybe.
I mean, sure, why not. It wouldn’t hurt anything, and would make them a bit more forgiving. Doubt it’ll change them too much, and I still wouldn’t put mastery points into it. But it seems silly to have an entire mastery tree that only somewhat benefits two units anyways.
Tanks really shouldn’t be dying, Thor’s are usually tanky enough to not die (though it can help with the one or two you might lose). Ironically, this would mean the cyclone would get the most benefit in a way. Though again, it’d be more of a nice thing then a game changing one.
Funny coincidence that the commander I’m leveling right now is Swann. I use cyclone hellbat (some goliaths too). Never had a serious issue with it. In fact, at some point in the past, I was genuinely surprised to see hear and see that my strategy was in the minority alongside mass wraith (which I also love, but you need all the upgrades unlocked to use it to its full potential). Personally, I don’t think the cyclones need any help, but I would welcome it.
When I think about it, I don’t take advantage of either bonus in power set 2 (immortality protocol vs. structure health). I don’t play siege tank thor often, and I don’t play mass turret. Cyclones with immortality protocol would only be an advantage in my eyes…
About the lock on ability, its damage is fixed (aside from the tech lab upgrade). The normal armory upgrade has no effect, and their regular attack is in fact separate as well. It does a LOT of damage though.
Despite Swann as terran mech being my favorite i play him amongst the least, one of the reasons being his awfully limited/redundant roster of units.
I dont care about mutators but in regular brutal i was never in a situation where Cyclones would have been consistently useful with their mobility/kiting trick.
Same goes for Hellion - who for some reason can not shoot while moving (in coop).
Thors are just way too large and get stuck on each other, and their slow firing animation limits their effectiveness.
Science vessel can not repair buildings?!! and can not shield buildings, and cant even heal biological (for teammates like abathur queen can).
Cyclones getting some benefit from immortality protocol (even a full refund!!) would still not convince me to make cyclones, simply because Goliaths are better vs air and STanks are better vs ground (with Herc).
This is Swann’s biggest misconception though, not that Immortality Protocol has anything to do with it or improve it at all.
The two sides of the same coin of Swann is that Herc/Tank/Goliath vs Cyclones. Players basically (especially on forum) seem to fall into solely one or the other, meanwhile mostly the Herc/Tank camp keep claiming how redundant and poor cyclones are (more often than not).
The truth of the matter is that it’s great when a CO can have two equally competing go-to strategies (with Wraiths closely in 2nd).
It’s actually quite strange considering many COs have this feature but nobody bats an eye about it, except for Thiccboi 
lol. Some examples being:
None of these are same in nature (just like Cyclone and Tanks) but it’s always this same gripe for Swann lol. Basically, each of these units have an advantage over the other in different areas but serve similar functions in some areas.
Curious even with these super buffs would people still gripe about cyclones the same haha 
As mentioned they are a fleeing unit so the best for them would be
(and giving hellions attack while move, so you can dump the minerals into something that runs with you)
Cyclones can not fly.
They are a fleeing/kiting ground unit that can not do it properly cause it gets stuck on teammates army, or terrain or whatever else.
I dont recall whats the cooldown on their lock-on once its breaks but that is another weak point.
They also have little synergy with Hercules since Cyclones do okay DPS but poor burst damage, so Herc drops are meaningless.
Wraiths, after their buffs and even the recent bug fix, are also the “kiting/fleeing” unit.
They dont have the range of a cyclone but feel much better to use due to their flight and no collision.
Siege Tanks (with Herc) have that rather insane Maelstorm rounds upgrade which massively boosts their single target damage output - directly infringing on the Cyclones single target damage niche, while at the same time STanks do it better thanks to Hercs.
Personally i never found any use for Cyclones at their price point in coop - they compete too much for resources that are better spent on better units.
Its a cool unit in multiplayer but struggles in coop due to poor pricing, as well as kiting just not being valuable in regular brutal.
To my knowledge these are some possibilities with Swann
There’s probably a few more I’m sure. By comparison, I find myself just going hydralisk/ultralisk every game for Kerrigan. Lurkers are sometimes okay.
I personally do not do hellion/cyclone in co-op (often called battle mech in versus). It doesn’t work because the cyclones are slower in co-op, but more durable. It’s more practical to just fight head on. Also, hellions have never been able to shoot while moving.
Painfully true.
Like rasmasyean said, cyclones only lock on one enemy unit uniquely. In contrast, goliaths can overkill an enemy consistently. Personally, I just use a mix. It works out nicely. As for the ability to kill ground, siege tanks are absolutely amazing, but sieging and unsieging is troublesome. I prefer the mindless cyclone lock.
Actually big discomfort with Swann cyclones is the lack of Orbital Command scan.
In regular multiplayer you can Scan an enemy then Cyclone lock from a long distance and the scan will keep them in vision while Cyclones blast them to pieces.
Swann has no OC scan, so you have to reveal enemies with units and keep them revealed with units - or the lock breaks.
Also the Swann cyclone moves at 2.81 which is shockingly slow compared to its multiplayer version which is 4.73 !!!
Obviously Swann cyclone is tankier, but then again Amon uses some phat powers so they are relatively fragile.
Yes but Tanks can fly… and tanks don’t get stuck either haha.
Anything when massed enough can stand their ground. This isn’t unique to Tanks at all.
Tanks can fly thanks to Hercules.
Which they synergize well thanks to their huge burst Maelstrom damage.
None of which Cyclones have or can use, due to their low burst but high dps.
Yes cuz using units outside of herc drop is instant reason they suck…
Not sure what you are talking about, but skipping on Tank+Herc drop is like skipping on ultimate evolutions for abathur.
Sure you can do it… but why?
Extra challenge for yourself i guess.
Point is cyclones have minimal synergy for Swann main strengths, similar to how Vanguards have minimal synergy (and even anti-synergy) with most Alarak strengths.
Yea you can make those units but neither of them will be fixed by reducing their cost or tweaking a mastery bonus.
wow
Whether you like cyclones or not (or know how to use them)… whatever your perspective on their strengths are… we are in agreement that IP is useless for them.
Funnily, if you check the map editor, for example the upgrade with the id SwannCommanderImmortalityCheapRebuild, you see that Swann Immortality Protocol could affect Cyclones, Diamondbacks, Goliaths, Hellbats, Hellions, Siege Tanks and Thors.
All those units have a UnitNameWreckage unit counterpart.
Not sure how functional all this would be, but it seems it was just cut at some point.
I think a long time ago someone mentioned that those units lack a model for the wreckage, so that is why they dont have direct benefit from immortality protocol.
Not sure if its true.
Sucks either way for poor swann.
Copy pasted from the other thread. Basically, yes, there is a niche for them. Are they the best against everything? No. But that’s why there’s different comps. You can read the Need Tips for Swann Strategies thread to see some more insight. Anyways, on to my old post:
Sorry, had a 13 hour work day and wife aggro when I got home. It’s midnight, but here 'ya go. Not the best I’ve ever done, I should have got the bonus’s but meh. Maguro Map, solo, RtK against Protoss air with carriers and voidrays. P1 Swann. Oracles are scary, but have short range. You can almost kite them with the Cyclones, splitting them from the rest of the wave, then dive back in and finish everything else off.
EDIT! I figured out how to post a link!
Fun fact, I included the screenshot of both Maguro’s overlay, and the score screen at the end. The Drill had more kills, but the Cyclones dealt more damage (Probably due to the Shards). If anyone plays mass Cyclones, I’d recommend setting the Lock-On key to rapidfire.
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/18guRtfpgCYgg3DdxiruNQDWld3ubtnAU?usp=sharing
I disagree simply off the fact that I take advantage of neither of the attribute bonuses in that set otherwise it only helps, no matter how small that help is