He’s not causing a solar eclipse when he stands up.
1 Like
Meh. I agree to disagree. The Thor was fine against Protoss. The Thor was fine in TvT. The Thor SUCKED in TvZ, because Zerg have too many cheap and OP abilities that mitigate Thor.
First, I’ve NEVER seen a Thor charge into Brood Lords. The Broodlings stop them from being able to close the distance. And this is assuming there’s no ground army to deal with for the Thors in the first place. Thors depend on having Hellbats and Siege Tanks backing them up, but they are so supply heavy, you can’t have enough. to threaten the Brood Lords because you can’t have 60 Supply of Thors 80 Supply of SCVs and expect the 60 Supply of Tanks and Hellbats to keep the Thors safe.
The Zergspaz is arguing over a situation that is NEVER going to happen. I’ve NEVER seen an army of Thors be able to take on an Zerg army with 20 Supply of Brood Lords (though it’s usually 12 Brood Lords for 24 Supply), because the Thors have to deal with the 100 Supply of Zerg Ground army that keeps increasing every few seconds because of the FREE UNITS from the Brood Lords.
It was never used vs Protoss because Mech is rarely used vs Protoss.
Thors got destroyed in TvT by Liberators and Tanks. Disabled by Ravens and YC by BC’s.
How do you go on without being PERMANENTLY embarrassed. Did you not know how Code S went? And, by the way, spaz. Did you forget that it’s not 10 Brood Lords vs 10 Thors. It’s 10 Thors vs 10 Brood Lords PLUS 40 MORE SUPPLY OF ZERG? It’s 10 Thors vs 10 Brood Lords AND TWENTY ROACHES. What the hell drugs are you on? Get off of them, immediately. They are damaging your brain.
1 Like
Hard to say, though, isn’t it? Because there’s not a lot of opportunity to see Thors used at the highest level of play… That said, I think Thors need more armor.
There should be a case study of Zerg players, I’ll tell you why.
Compare the Thor vs Broodlord when it comes to HP and Damage.
Thors have 400HP, 1 base armor. Thors in HIP do 25(+10 vs massive) per attack.
Broodlords have 225HP, 1 base armor. Broodlords do 20 damage per attack(not counting broodling damage which is 4x2 because of the 2 broodlings)
Why should the 225HP broodlord beat a 400HP Thor in HIP 1v1?.
Can any Zerg step up to the plate and explain why the Thor, a unit designed to counter Broodlords should lose to a Broodlord 1v1?.
1 Like
Since we’ve clarified that you aren’t talking about the recent patch, Code S was won with mech by Gumiho and both Innovation and Maru have won key victories with mech when they won Code S.
What years did they do it?
1 Like
To whiners like MoM infestors with 3 spells are not micro intensive but units that can only a-move are. Move command BCs and cyclones are also micro intensive… lol
2 Likes
I never said Infestors didn’t require micro.
1 Like
He’s going quite a few years back. 2017 for Gumiho and Innovation, and 2018 for Maru. We’re talking several patches back. But patch dependency aside, Gumiho is the ONLY “Mech Terran”. Innovation splits a little more, but is definitely better with his Bio play. Maru as well.
Gumiho had ONE first place finish… from 2017 to 2019… So… he TECHNICALLY cited ONE Mech Terran… Now let’s do the same thing for Rogue, Dark, and Serral.
Rogue has THREE first place finishes between 2017 and 2019.
Dark has THREE first place finishes in 2019.
Serral has NINE first place finishes in 2018 and 2019, and would have more, except for Reynor.
So… 1 Mech Terran, once, vs 3 Zerg players, fifteen times.
2 Likes
There’s a Thor in the middle of the sea,
There’s a Thor in the middle of the sea,
There’s a Thor,
There’s a Thor,
You better learn to micro it, you’ll see.
Two long weeks are behind me, but I won’t go crackers just yet.
1 Like
We’re talking far weaker versions of mech, sweetie. Gumiho won Code S back then - with the weaker mech.
That’s inaccurate to say the least. I told you that all top terrans have meched constantly for years, especially in TvT and TvZ. Maru used Mech in Code S season 3. That was this october:
Here’s maru smashing soO in the WESG qualifier (on the new patch):
Check your facts BEFORE crying.
No, I clearly understand the term and the concept better than you do.
This is demonstrated by your statement:
Micro potential is a combination of how much you can improve a unit’s performance through direct control and how much you can control a unit without reducing its performance.
Whether or not a unit is strong or weak when it is not being micromanaged is irrelevant. That is a different subject altogether (micro-requirements).
Unless you change the unit’s damage point (or in the case of abilities, change the cast time, finish time, delays, etc); then the larger unit has the same ability to move between shots and the same ability to switch targets within combat as its smaller counterpart.
Unless you change the unit’s movement speed, it has the same ability to chase or flee provided that there is enough available space to avoid a collision. If you don’t change the range either, then the unit has the same relative ability to kite or the same vulnerability to being kited regardless of the size and stat changes.
The only change to a unit’s micro potential when you make that unit larger+tougher is that it cannot fit into the same spaces, you will not be able to fit as many into a transport assuming the cargo size is changed accordingly, and you may or may not be able to force as many wasted shots or as much overkill.
That strictly depends on the micro in question.
Splitting and dropship micro becomes easier with fewer units because you don’t have to send as many commands to your units.
Stutter-stepping and kiting is typically unchanged; except that a smaller or larger portion of your army might be in range based on the difference in size.
Focus-firing varies based on a number of factors including whether the units have a long damage point or a projectile that would force you to split the units into different groups when issuing the command.
In your hypothetical that is not necessarily the case.
A unit’s vulnerability to splash depends on a number of factors; mainly the exact burst damage and health, which determine the number of hits needed to kill each unit. Depending on these numbers, increasing a unit’s size, cost+supply, and health can actually make the unit more vulnerable to a source of splash damage rather than less.
A simple example of this is the Hydralisk (90 health) compared to a Marine without combat shields (45 health) or immediately after stimpacks (again 45 health). Hydralisks are larger than Marines and they have double the health of a Marine in those cases, but they are also much more vulnerable to certain sources of splash such as Siege Tanks, Widow Mines, and Banelings because those units have bursts that kill Hydralisks much more efficiently than they kill Marines.
The Thor has a damage point of 0.8332 (0.595) against ground units. Even if you reduced its size to the size of a Marine and increased its speed to match a stimmed Marine, it would still have significantly less micro potential because of the damage point. This is a factor in a unit’s micro potential that you are blatantly ignoring.
1 Like
Yes, Maru breaks out mech sometimes. Maru is not a “Mech Terran”. Also, Maru v Solar match you posted. Go to 30 minutes in, and watch from 30 minutes to 35 minutes. Good grief, you should be a LOT more embarrassed.
Solar wins BOTH games, you spaz. The FIRST game, Maru had a dozen Thors, and you claimed that made Maru unbeatable. Solar won… with Brood Lords.
1 Like
I watched this video. What kind of remedial school did you go to?
SoO attacked in with SEVEN Brood Lords and had over 40 Supply of Swarm Hosts in BOTH games that went past the midgame. He used Brood Lords in ONLY the first game, and, as I said, he ONLY has 14 Supply of Broods and depended on a large army of Swarm Hosts. Of COURSE he got smashed.
Swarm Hosts can be zoned out by everything Terran has, because practically EVERYTHING Terran has hits harder on ground targets, and Swarm Hosts have a relatively long cool down. LMAO You’re ridiculous.
LOL You’re dismissed, boy.
I like that post because it actually has potential for a discussion.
However, …
a) HT feedback (as easy as IT spamming was) stops any casters from working and also helps killing overseers which is often an auto-loss if there is a mothership involved.
b) Ghosts can use emp which also disables zerg micro (queen, infestor, viper).
so your point of zerg being the only race that disables part of the enemy army is incorrect.
Neural parasite is often countered with scan + target fire or disruptors or storm or revelation + target fire or … (literarily the main difference here between a good and a bad player is how many scans / revelations he has & uses more or less effectively)
Vipers’ parasitic bomb is strong but neccessary so there is a counter to mass air units (mutas, vikings, voidrays) like the thor or ghosts are neccessary vs. broodlords as well as blink stalkers or tempests or archons vs. mass corruptors or …
Parasitic bomb is very strong no doubt but it requires a high amount of micro because of it’s similar range to most air units and the squishy-ness of vipers.
Since thors have “micro potential” now does that mean that the stealth buff where thors prioritize broodlords automatically over broodlings will be reverted?
1 Like
Probably not. The choice to prioritize the air weapon over the ground weapons is a general change that affects a lot more than just that one case; and the Brood Lord in particular is not affected as much by stutter-step micro because of the broodling’s ability to block pathing.
My purpose was more to discredit rabidrone’s false assertions than anything else. The ability to stutter-step or change targets more efficiently helps against Liberators and Carriers if used properly, but it isn’t a
1 Like