Serral is a joke LMAO

And to think this guy was ever called the GOAT of SC2 is beyond me. Plays overpowered race and manages to lose 8-0 to Clem. This guy is overrated beyond any measure.

For years zerg apologists were shouting: “It’S oNly SeRRal” which was blatantly false because we had at least other 3 zergs equally dominating as Serral. With Dark going to military i hope this trash zerg dominance era has come to an end.

Now we can start shouting “It’s only Clem” because no other terrans on the planet are even remotely close to his TvZ. Clem is terran’s prodigy. Accept that.

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I feel like serral played outdated strat because he was attending army and did not know the changes in the meta… i congratulate still both players, who knows what the future will hold he has time to recover his throne

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I hope not. I’m literally sick of all zergs winning anything at pro level. While most people on this forum complain about protoss being OP i for one wish that this garbage dominance has finally come to an end. Zerg winning 50 % of tournaments since 2017 makes any terran or protoss player hate this race. I’d rather see HerO winning first premier tournament for protoss since 2022 than all these zerg clowns. And to make things worst zerg was still receiving buffs in the last few patches. Now if you play this broken race and you lose 8-0 you don’t deserve to be called a GOAT anymore. At least not in my eyes.

I hope Serral retires after this and Reynor takes his place as top zerg. Glad Rogue and Dark are done thanks to military.

There’s a page long list of nerfs given to zerg that are attributed to Serral, Clem’s is a few harsh wm nerfs but nothing else. WP by Serral and Clem, he beat the cavebob style.

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I think terran received a lot more nerfs over the course of LOTV expansion - tankivac, raven, liberator, cyclone, ghost just to name a few. Zerg’s only significant nerf was removal of infested terrans because it was hilarious how unit costing only energy could take out entire protoss fleet. Other than that zerg only received subtle “nerfs” like creep tumor vision reduce"

Queens were NEVER nerfed.

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This tournament showcased what happens when you give the balance council the ability to nerf a race just because of one player. Then allow the most Terran favored map pool to be added to tournaments. Clem’s skill didn’t beat Serral. The balance council and map makers beat Serral.

In the past 3 years Zerg has received these nerfs.

Deleted Infested Terran.
Damage Reduction to Infestor Fungal.
Vision Reduction to Infestor while burrowed.
Baneling damage and health nerfed.
Broodlord damage reduction.
Hydras combined upgrades split again.
Lurkers speed reduced.
Swarm Host redesigned and made the worst unit in the game.
Creep tumor nerfs and creep speed spread nerfs.
Ravagers morphing time increased.

Almost every Zerg unit is worse than it was in HOTS and we never got any compensation for any of these nerfs. Meanwhile Terran gets compensation for every nerf. Barely nerfed widow mines and ghosts and suddenly entire bio’s upgrades are cheaper? lol what.

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Both players are prodigies. For years, Serral has been dominating not because he plays Zerg, but because as many casters and analysts have said, he simply does things no one else is capable of doing and pretty much was playing Zerg at an optimal level.

Clem has been on the rise for years and IMO was already the best overall Terran prior to this tournament. He seemingly patched up any remaining shortcomings in his play and has proven that without a doubt in this performance.

That said, I would say both players are now head and shoulders above the rest, and one can argue they are equal. But now that Serral is finally up against an opponent of equal skill, you start to see all the balance issues in TvZ that lower level players have complained about for the longest time surface.

To sum things up, the main issues are, on Terran side:

  1. Terran having the most initiative in almost all engagements, especially vs Zerg (AKA Terran is almost always the one on the offensive, forcing a reaction). Given equal skill and APM, it’s easier to only worry about what you have to do vs worrying about how to react to the opponent.
  2. Terran having the most tools, with many units being multi-purpose and hitting both ground and air.
  3. Flexibility of Terran units, with many able to be used in multiple situations from straight up offensive, to slow push, to harassment, to area denial and defense.
  4. Cost-efficiency of Terran units, where many key units can only be taken out via heavy investment and losses from the opponent, barring blatant mistakes from the Terran player. Simultaneously, where MMM in particular has easy extraction method without any significant penalties (They are basically Muta harass without the heavy cost).
  5. Second-best macro mechanic in MULES despite all aforementioned advantages.

On Zerg side:

  1. Not having great early game defense options. Zerglings are too weak, Roaches are too slow and low DPS, Banelings are too expensive on larvae. Queens at best only help stabilize the game into late-game, and generally don’t win games. This may be balanced considering Queens are more of a macro mechanic, but all of it is by design and still places Zerg perpetually in a defensive position and gives initiative to the opponent.
  2. To add to point 1, any attempt at early aggression from Zerg ends up being close to an all-in because Zerg macro mechanic is tied to their production mechanic, whereas it’s separate for T and P. Zerg is the most heavily impacted race from not making workers. This tends to make Zerg play pattern somewhat 1-dimensional and predictable. Serral lost 2 games in the final series from attempting a Queen push, the second of which did decent damage, but more economic damage to himself.
  3. Zerg has no easy ways to harass. Mutas are too expensive and fragile, though still the overall best option. Infested Terrans are gone. Swarm Hosts are absolutely gutted and pigeon-holed into a very specific strategy if used. Drops and Nydus are easily shut down if scouted, as Nydus can’t be cancelled and Overlords don’t benefit from long-range loading or speed boost. One can argue that having to upgrade each OL individually to be a dropship was an overall nerf as well. A failed Terran drop can simply escape and be integrated into the main army, whereas a failed Zerg harass almost always results in total unit loss.
  4. Because of Zerg’s reliance on macro, Zerg tech on average arrives later than tech for other races. When people complain that Zerg just spams T1 units, they fail to account for the fact that it’s virtually impossible for Zerg to stay on equal tech and still have a robust economy. This also makes it easier for other races to have the appropriate answers when a Zerg attack finally does arrive.

All these issues compound to Zerg basically having to sit back and wait to get attacked while trying to reach critical mass in the majority of games. It is a forced playstyle that doesn’t have a solid game plan, and can go wrong in a large number of ways.

What you saw was both players using their races to maximum potential and Zerg simply not having an answer to what Terran is fully capable of.

Could Serral have done something different to get an edge? Maybe… Perhaps he could have tried for some macro hatches since his far bases kept getting denied. But looking at the resources tab, both players were spending optimally, so I’m not sure he even had the minerals to do so. All the Queens Zerg needs for early defense also puts a dent in that strategy.

I think Clem played very well and deserved the win. If you want to see things from an equity standpoint, certainly Serral has dominated for a long time and it was time to let someone else shine. But this finals was extremely one-sided, and against arguably the best SC2 player in the world, no less. When such a drastic shift in performance occurs between two players who have faced each other many times before, I think it’s far less likely that one suddenly improved THAT much (especially considering Serral was still dominating all other competition), and more likely that Clem has finally learned to exploit a particular weakness in Zerg play pattern in general.

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The fact that you remember this and not the reduction of cost in bane speed means that the effect it has had is minimal.

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Why would I mention reduction of cost? You think 50 gas compensates for making the unit so terrible that it deleted ling/bane from the meta? Next thing you’re going to tell me is the 25 mineral reduction for the Ultra was a huge difference.

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The thing that deletes ling bane comps was blue flame hellions 1 shotting lings and the huge WM radius, both have been nerfed. It makes sense, a few maps with in base naturals and there’s no longer the ez path of counter attacking for the victory.

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Blue flame hellion nerf did absolutely nothing. You just need 1 more 100 mineral unit and its back to the same 1 shotting Zerglings. The WM radius nerf wasn’t even a nerf either. lol It literally stops FOUR units out of 30 being killed at the very corners of the radius. Also, ling/bane was a thing before nerfing their HP and dmg. Hellions had nothing to do with it.

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Ok. I agree with many of your points. It is true that terran bio is way too mobile and with Clem’s level of micro it might be near impossible to destroy it. However remember that ONLY Clem can pull it off. No other terran, not even Maru can do this. Even Byun (who is famous for marine micro) cannot do this. Clem is simply on another level.

And all above brings the question:
Is it ONLY Serral ? The answer is no because Dark, Rogue and Reynor at their peak performed equally well as Serral. Dark and Rogue are now gone. Rogue returned from military being only a shadow of himself. Dark is leaving now. Reynor is young and stupid and looks like he doesn’t even want to play SC2 anymore.

In IEM Katowice half year ago Serral crushed Clem 3-0 ? What about that ? Map pool was different but balance was more in favor of zerg - pre patch 5.0.13 - no lib nerf, no WM nerf etc which basically makes no sense. On better patch Clem lost, on worse patch he demolished 8-0.

Completely disagree with this one. Queen is hands down the best unit in the game. It is the reason why zerg has been broken in the entirety of LOTV. Mineral only unit tanky enough to stop any forms of harassment - provides extra larva, free vision, transfuse makes it nigh invulnerable. Look at game nr 4 (Post-youth) on this map, Clem did nothing and game transitioned into late game TvZ with Thors, ghosts, libs, broods, ultras. If anything queen is the first unit to be nerfed. Then we can talk about buffs for zerg units that really need them.

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lol. Ghosts, Widow Mines and High Templars would like to have a word with you.

Serral is not a joke, he is still one of the best players in the world, only reason he lost to Clem is because Zerg has a lower skill ceiling than Terran. Serral has pretty much already exhausted the potential of Zerg, no other Zerg player could have played better than him.

Tough loss but I doubt Clem will be able to replicate today’s performance, he pretty much played like a God, never missing any micro/macro. Never seen any Terran play like this, not even Maru at his peak was this good.

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Yes, however given the nature of zerg crybabies just because of this particular performance they will demand heavy nerfs for terran - 7 years of zerg dominance is not enough. Serral must keep winning “because he is a GOAT”.

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Naw but usually when the best player in the game can’t even take a single game off one of the best Terrans in the game, there might be a problem.

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I watched a couple of the games and Clem was just the better player, Zerg is still the obvious choice on this patch but things happen.

The first 2 games at least were just Serral getting caught in a bad opening, 1 he loses his queens, 2 he tries to get a 4th too quickly. Major props for Clem attacking these mistakes, that’s why Terran is hard, because you have to look for opportunities or you are just behind.

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Confused High templar left the Chat.

I love how this is a thread between terran and zerg and protoss Players are Like “im glad we had half a Chance there, wasnt expecting that”

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TvZ balance favors zerg to the point of practically being a free win due to the insane power of the hydralisk and infestor combo. I had a 70% winrate vs terran in gm last season. Serral absolutely annihilated engagements as long as he was using infestors and hydras. The key to beating terran is mass hydra infestor, but serral is a giga noob who can’t play a proper ZvT. He stuck with banelings aka the free win machine even after they were nerfed because that’s the only way he knows how to win. I told you he was an apm spammer with near zero strategical ability. The ability to optimize build orders for maximum drones is NOT strategic ability.

This era of apm spamming needs to be a footnote in sc2’s history but unfortunately the balance counsel was too timid & let serral dominate for far too long while blaming the issue on balance instead of game design. So now it defines the largest and most dominant era in sc2 history.

https://i.imgur.com/86yz0Zq.jpeg

Rare sight, adventurer and abs agreeing.

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Of all things i was wondering why Serral isn’t abusing infestor which is super strong on this patch - 75 start energy + fungal range. Literally infestor pops out of egg and all of a sudden bio isn’t that scary anymore. He only built like one at a time which is not enough.

Second thing - in games no 1 and 3 he made stupid 2 base roach ravager all-ins which were shut down by Clem completely doing basically zero damage. I’ve seen diamond zergs executing 2 base pushes better than that. If this is the definition of a GOAT then i want nothing to do with a video game where this “GOAT” is playing.