Today, diving into Swann and his Vespene Drone benefits. Most notably, I wanted to find out the exact benefit of Vespene Drone Mastery, in regards to when to place them.
On the surface, it is obviously a no brainer to say “get them ASAP cuz the longer they run, the more you’ll benefit”. This is undoubtedly true on its own. However, when the player chooses their mastery in favor of Drakken Drill rather than Vespene Drone Cost Reduction, the investment of 8 of these babies dramatically change during the early game.
- Cost changes from 100mineral/Vespene Drone (VD) down to 10mineral/VD.
If you’ve chosen the cost reduction, then perhaps this isn’t super relevant. Then again, maybe stay and read on and see how much benefit it really is.
Some basic information
- Full saturation of geyser (defined as 3 workers) roughly nets the player 114gas/min.
- Vespene Drones function at 33% efficiency compared to full saturation, or 37.62gas/min.
- Far vespene gas geyser is a thing, which means you need 4 workers to reach saturation. The lost gas is about ~10% or 11.4gas/min. You can also see this old post for more information Vespene gas lost on each map due to far geysers.
- Typical 2-base saturation time ranges from 4min-6min. We’ll be taking the 6min as a marker, as it is most relevant. Once all gases are saturated with vespene drones on them, the rate of “early” vs “later” VDs are the same. So the benefit only lies within the frame of reaching full saturation.
Let’s do some math with an impossible scenario:
- Most maps have 8 gases, the total net gain is 8 x 114gas/min = 912gas/min. This assumes you somehow had all 8 saturated at 0min.
- So if we continue this impossible hypothetical, 6min x 912gas/min = 5472gas gained from 0min to latest full saturation of 6min.
- Vespene Drones cast instantly at 0min. 33% x 5472gas = 1806gas.
- That seems like a lot of gas
, of course not so since the scenario is entirely impossible.
A more likely scenario
- So I’m going to reference a very standard Swann solo-ish game, only for the reference times for when the gases are built.
Starcraft 2 Co-Op Solo Mission: Oblivion Express [TRUE Swann Solo] - YouTube
- What is more standard are the following:
- First 4 (accounting allies) gases at 3min is typical (2min at fastest).
- Next 4 usually at 4:30-5min built.
- Small note: it’s an estimate, the exact figure isn’t really important
- This means with VD Mastery, I’ll assume 0 delay.
- 4 x 33% x 114gas/min = 150gas/min
- 150gas/min x (6min-2min) = 600gas
- 150gas/min x (6min-4.5min) = 225gas
- Net total 600 + 225 = 825gas (note this is an over-estimation those 4min x 4 and 1.5min x 4 marks are generally not met, but anyway.)
- Let’s see Drill Mastery/No VD Reduction.
- My intention is to upload a replay of mine on CoA from recently but sc.drop isn’t working, so alas… here’s the data/gist (Swann (me) + Zeratul, 700 vs 100 kills respectively, 18min CoA full completion via Cyclones. Reason for description is to show that it isn’t a Swann got carried by Zeratul or super long CoA.)
- 150gas/min x (6min-3.5min all 4 up at 100cost each in this replay) = 375gas
- 150gas/min x (6min-5.5min) = 75gas
- Net total 375 + 75 = 450gas
The difference here is 825 - 450 = 375gas at a high estimation of benefit using VD cost reduction mastery
The saved cost
Clearly there's no doubt VD Mastery saves 720minerals. The relevance of this savings is debatable - reason being this is required to boost economy for Tank/Herc build (ie. investment is high requiring this).The net benefit of VD Mastery also provides roughly 375gas.To answer the 'when question', even if a player delayed providing all 8 VD until 6min mark, the net loss throughout an entire game is only 825gas. That’s not really that huge (so perhaps we can put the angry hippos at rest with this? Wishful thinking?)Compared to the far geyser issue, this is not terribly significant. As the cost of 30pts into mastery vs 1 extra worker on a gas (gained 375 vs 250 far geyser on average). That’s kind of lame imo.
This post is not to say choosing VD Mastery or Drill Mastery is better or worse. Rather it is to point out the different styles/preference in gameplay doesn't have as much impact on the overall gas net gain, in any given game. If I had to draw a parallel, this cost reduction isn’t as impactful as many think, similar to Chrono Mastery.
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Heh heh heh…VD means venereal disease.
For me, Swann seems to have a bottle neck on minerals in the early parts of the game, due to having to constantly build supply depots alongside the rest of his SCV’s, tanks, and/or turrets (outside of the salvaged ones you expand with). Which means if you maxed out VD (he he) mastery, you wouldn’t have to worry about the mineral problems of drones… But you can’t really use that extra vespene anyways due to still being mineral starved.
I usually delay my drones since my mastery points are placed into the drill, and I can still crank out 3 siege tanks before the start of the first night on Dead of Night. And usually, your allies aren’t in the best position to take advantage of that gas either that early in the game.
However, I don’t fault anyone taking the VD (heh) mastery either. Swann has a lot going on in the early game, and not having to worry about what timings to put the drones on geysers can be nice. And if you don’t find yourself using the drill that much, then there really is no downside to putting all the points into it.
Next, we can see if we could put a cheap drone on a geyser to replace one of the SCV’s, have that SCV keep collecting minerals would somehow reach a certain breakpoint to help with an opener, or if we only need to split the points to somehow reach some other breakpoint…
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Certainly, I think it would be silly to fault them for it. It is absolutely a style and strategy preference.
At the core of it though:
- If a player chose Herc/Tank (or similar, which is largely most of his more commonly used strategy’s route), choosing Drill Mastery would be less optimal (for that very mineral issue you highlighted).
- Similarly, if your focus is to prioritize Drakken’s top bar, then choosing VD Mastery would be less optimal.
That isn’t to say either one will net the player a loss. It will though exacerbate the lengthy ramp up (many Swann players suffer) - making an already comparatively slower commander even slower.
And people who incessantly ping their gas for drone needs to chill 
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At least it provides a more tangible benefit than the ones who ping for Stetmann…
Great write ups by the way.
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Swann is heavily mineral starved especially in early game.
He is also extremely slow at ramping up especially if the expansions are heavily guarded.
Cheap early gas drones mean you can focus more SCV on minerals while letting the early gas drones bring in some gas that you need for tech.
Not to mention that the ally will also benefit from the early gas.
The gas drone mastery helps you speed up the atrociously slow ramp.
Drill is the least important aspect of swann (unless p1) and thanks to swanns very powerful turrets that sell for 100% you do not need the drill for early defense.
Drill mastery would be less bad if it was up against any other mastery, but imho the gas drone mastery is 100% mandatory for optimal swann play because it helps him improve his worst aspect - slow rampup.
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This is literally what I’m dispelling as a myth. The comparative difference is at most 325 gas throughout an entire game between the 2 mastery options. Yet, we see again here that it is used as “a reason”.
This is clearly coming from the fact you aren’t familiar with using Drill Mastery. Please post a similar CoA game, kill 700:100, full completion at 18min. <== Not exactly excellent at all, but if what you’re saying is true then you must have a ton of CoA replays at 16min or earlier right?
My point there isn’t to “show you up”. It is simply to portray your quote being false. The timings, carries, and bonuses are all very real. They are in line with fairly standard games (and frankly speaking, it would be faster but you know how CoA goes when you have to wait for your ally to push J’nara). All of that showing Drill is neither ‘least important’ or that ‘mastery useless’.
It simply is a different and perfectly viable tactic, one my post is meant to dispel exactly this kind of notion.
Yea, the drill over VD mastery really does come down to preference. One could argue, for example, that since Swann IS mineral starved in the beginning, then rushing gas drones won’t really help your early game much either. You could just wait to plop them down instead of instant.
Now, they do indeed help relieve some of the burden in the early game if your rushing out an army and don’t plan on utilizing the drill as much. But even outside of P1, getting a drill early can still be great. Think of it this way, you now get an extra Concentrated Beam and Pulse Cannon that you wouldn’t have had in that game. With those, you can clear an enemy wave with no risk to you or your allies army, or go ahead and fire off at an enemy base, weakening it for a later attack.
At the end of the day, it comes down to; do you want a bit of an earlier map presence with the drill, or do you wan to go straight to hammering out an army. Both are viable, an luckily with all these numbers given to us, we can make a better decision on our part. And it’s nice to know that for those who do delay the drones for a couple minutes, it isn’t going to be breaking the gas bank as it were.
Early gas > Total gas…325 gas early CAN really help. (but not necessarily…depends on your build).
I put masteries evenly on laser cost (15) and vespene drone cost (15). I like using my top bar and I get those upgrades right away. Top bars to clear enemy waves so lost of units is minimal.
I saturate all 8 vespene drones in a little later because I dislike not being able to contribute early game. So those minerals are used for statics instead. Start with 2-4, then midgame, to 8. In my experience I don’t starve for gas even if I do this and most other COs are not gas heavy (unless your partner is bugging u). In mutations I put them in asap.
For solos, I focus more on statics rather than units (since you get 4 drones are max and I put them in asap). I usually finish with 130-150 supply and a whole lot of turrets. P2 statics is extremely strong and cheap (with static masteries).
For P3, it makes sense to put all your masteries on drones and get your first 16 tanks up and running asap.
It is super clear that having Vespene Drones give more gas, 33% extra gas. I hope people can use that 325gas with context and not read into it as a whole number.
Keep in mind the following:
- It isn’t at 2min, you get 300+ gas instantly. It is that by 6min, you’d had at most 325gas extra if you’ve done it fairly optimal. And remember, half of that depends entirely on your ally.
- How does that really align with your commander. Having 300+ extra is great and all but do you have the corresponding mineral that gets you x or y that then leads to an actual advantage.
- 6 x Dragoons, but needs 700+mineral by 6min. Do you have that?
- 3ish Ambushers, but do you really have 1k mineral to get that?
- the likely answer is no, you might have a portion of that. And that’s great.
- Will having 1-2 Dragoons or 1 extra Ambushers or whatever else really make or break that 6min timing? And by how much?
- Having 200gas at 6min vs +325gas extra sounds like a huuuuuge difference. If all you need gas for is 175, then in that scenario, that’s entirely pointless.
Again, not to say VD has no advantage but definitely understand that its actual impact is entirely build order driven.
Investing in the drill mastery is not a smart move tbh.
We…were literally explaining ways that it is smart and competitive…
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Vespene drone mastery is just too critical for Swann and his early game. Maybe a 25/5 split at best, but drill play is just inferior to his standard play.
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How much of the established idea of the drone mastery based on old information though? It certainly was a better idea back when its competition was dreadful.
Since then though the mastery has both been given research time and research cost. With the Armories not costing gas anymore, it’s perfectly viable to rush lvl 1 drill research too. Giving more dps and more uses of his top bar.
Not to say that drone mastery is worse, but don’t be too blinded by established methods. A different style could easily work better for you or someone else, or in different scenarios.
Or just be more fun for the player in question.
Side note Fearr, it’s actually 495 minerals saved, cause of the cost reduction for its competition.
How do you mean?
Isn’t it 100base down to 10? So 90difference x 8gases?
This is exactly cuz TeamLiquid made their guide from a million years ago, suggested 1 build order. Then everyone took it and ran away with it.
Even today, despite information provided to the contrary, people still strongly believe it to be true.
Cause the drill mastery saves you 225 minerals, so if you deduct that from the 720 you get 495 saved overall. Some of it later on though, which does affect things too.
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Ah I see, yeah. I figured I kept it simple.
People don’t seem to realize that **by not going Tank/Herc like their life depends on it, you save a lot of money.
Top bar abilities can handle enemy wave while your units push into bases / objectives, which minimize lost and save you resources.
There are more than one way to play Swann. Static offense / defense, Herc drop / load with tanks, cyclones, wraiths, Goliaths A-move, Thors (for banelings / scourge).
If you are the type that focuses on units, p3 play is perfect for you. Full V drones masteries would be best with P3.
My preference is statics mixed with some units, I found this is best for all maps. My favorite Swann is vanilla because it most versatile. P2 would be my second.
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The reason begind the vespene drone mastery being superior is just the early mineral it saves that makes it too critical early game. The drill mastery is more suited for mid/late game, but Swann already has a strong phase there, while lacking his early presence.
I should have not said “not smart”, rather “not the most efficient”. Many gameplay styles can be played, but there is going to be 1 that is superior and that revolves around getting a strong mech army supported by the Laser drill. P0 is his strongest right now.
And the TL guide is outdated, true, but you dont need to read that to realize after a few games what Swann is lacking most.
Anyways, I just wanted to point out that. Feel free to not agree with it.