Remove widow mines from the game they ruin the game

General Discussion
1

I can show you countless of replays where a terran just spams widow mines with MMM and literally presses T and amoves around, whilst running back behind there mine lines whenever pushed.

And guess what… all terran units have range, so they can just shoot at retreating armies, Zealots dont have range however. Guess what happens…

Either zealots die to mines, or zealots die to the MMM while retreating, without being able to do damage. And zealots are basically the only gateway unit that doesnt trade cost ineffective in the early stages.

ussually straight after that they are BM ‘stuttering’ forward wich has no use at all seeing my units are already slowed from the mass marauder with concussive. And all my zealots already died. So the rest of my gateway units get evaporated.

protoss still doesnt have a good gateway unit.

This amove playstyle needs to get dealt with. Widow mine type units should never have this much impact on a game.

You can whipe 100’s of workers without actuall micro. You can basically cost efficiently fight everything protoss has with mines aslong as you kill the observers. (and even scanning to kill observers with mines IS cost efficient even if the numbers dont say it, robo should always be making stuff and because of the observer speed nerf its almost guaranteed to get another shot off on the mine or retreat)

You have them very early on in the game and you can reactor them.

There are no reall counters to mines. You are guaranteed to lose workers. Even if its only 1 per mine (best case scenario). Its still a worker. (and ALLOT of lost mining time)

Mines force protoss APM to be spent on defending, splitting probes intime, having units on the right side of the map. Killing the widow mines, rerallying probes to mine again after theyr split, focusfiring the mines, focusfiring the medivac. While terran doesnt have to spend any APM to burrow a mine and if a terran decides to actually unburrow he can actually save the mine and do it all over again.

So if blizzard is seriously saying protoss has a better economy then terran. Either give protoss BETTER static defense. (turrets vs warpprism comes in mind)

Or give protoss a solid way to deal with mines early on. (buff stalker damage or decrease mine health)

Or make mines harder to use by forcing terran to actuall be required to click the thing they want a mine to explode. Not this automated “burrow auto attack”.

Because the harrass potential terran has, to basically win a game instantly, even if protoss is ahead a base. is way out of proportion, especially if you look at the only ways to do eco damage to terran is by warpprism zealot spam. and terran just being able to make turrets and be automatically safe.

3 Likes
2

cannons, warpins, recall, shield battery not enough?

and zealots and dts require micro?

what is you, plat or something?

2 Likes
3

cannons, warpins, recall, shield battery not enough?

Cannons dont even come close in terms of DPS to turrets. Warpins can only happen if your gateways are not on cooldown.

And shield battery literally does nothing versus mines.

Where is your logic?

and zealots and dts require micro?
what is you, plat or something?

Yes zealots and dt’s require micro. If i amove my zealots into mines guess what happens if i dont micro my zealots.

Dt’s require allot of micro. You know how the only way to be cost efficient with dt’s is by killing workers in the early stages? You know how dt’s automatically target army over workers? You know dt’s have shadow stride?

Dt’s dont instantly blow up an entire mineral line within seconds,like a planted mine does. They take time to swipe down all individually clicked SCV’s And have to be rerouted when the SCV’s run away to an army.

Added to that shadow striding away from detection is a thing.

Added to that, cost for cost a DT has to kill 5 workers (plus dark shrine cost, wich is 6 workers, because we dont get it in our techpath for free) So if you make 1 dt, you need to kill 11 workers with it. 2 dt’s 16 workers. 3dt’s 21 workers. Cost for cost. A mine has to kill 2.25 worker to be cost efficient.

Oh and not to forget. DT’s can be automatically removed by mines if they are well placed, if there is detection.

If you see a dark shrine and dont want to micro but have 100% hold. Make 3 mines per mineral line and 1 turret. You will never take damage from DT’s in your mineral lines. ever.

1 Like
4

yeah i think u just suck and are looking for excuses

god forbid

2 Likes
5

turrets 12x2 cannons 20 damage at once turrets do 24 damage but 3 armor reduces the damage to 18 .

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I think you suck aswell. I get it, you want to be carried by the most cassual unit in the game.

Must be nice to actually have a unit that is broken offensive, aswell as defensive.

I bet you are masters arent you? getting carried all the way up there by making mines. Once you dont have access to mines its all the way down to bronze with you again. Where you belong.

So in a way your personal attacks make sense,
A cornered cat indeed makes strange jumps.

1 Like
7

turrets 12x2 cannons 20 damage at once turrets do 24 damage but 3 armor reduces the damage to 18 .

Oh you are one of those. You know what DPS means right? Damage per Second. Now look at the 39.3 DPS of a turret versus the 22.4 of cannons versus air.

We can also look at the cost of a turret vs the cost of a cannon if you preffer that statistic instead. But you probably wont like that either. It doesnt fit your agenda either.

2 Likes
8

Wew lad, this was inspiring. Im gonna use way more mines against toss from now on

2 Likes
9

Wew lad, this was inspiring. Im gonna use way more mines against toss from now on

In my games everyone already is because they know its broken.

For your first attack on 3 base toss you should have around 8/11 mines. If toss is going chargelot. You will always win.

10

So whats worse from your perspective, having a minedrop in third, nat or main? At say 5 mins

1 Like
11

So whats worse from your perspective, having a minedrop in third, nat or main? At say 5 mins

Your gonna have to actually see where the toss army is. It doesnt really matter much. And is map dependant.

But ussually on 2 base toss going into the natural drop 2 mines there and fly towards the main with boost and drop 2 mines there guarantees damage. If you have a follow up attack on the natural after that aswell. Its autowin. (Hellions/marines)

1 Like
12

Nice. Also, is it more annoying if the terran leaves the mines there, or picks them up?

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Nice. Also, is it more annoying if the terran leaves the mines there, or picks them up?

it doesnt matter. Ussually at this state protoss cannot kill the mines in the natural intime to cover the main. Or youve forced out 2+ probe kills and you can pick up the mines in the main after.

The easiest way to do this is to just keep your reaper alive early game. And park it infront of protosses base. See when he moves out with stalkers. And u have guaranteed damage. If he doesnt you already won with your 5 rax timing.

14

Thanks mate, will try this.

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Thanks mate, will try this.

Dont forget, stalkers are extremely bad versus marauders with medivac support. Seeing your 8/11 mines already blow up all the zealots. You can basically just make a marauder heavy army and amove through with stim.

16

dont get too butthurt about it, you likely do suck (so do i, no shame here)

but toss has the best defense and you suggested more so dont blame me for ridiculing your post, you asked for it. i know you just want to mine minerals and gas and never use spare apm to defend so you get a cannon or 2. but when thats not enough then you just become a joke ;D

1 Like
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I gladly spend 50 more minerals for a static defensev thats not my CC and can attack ground units

2 Likes
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yeah seriously. OP was talking about better static defense like the MIGHTY MISSLE TURRET.

i’d love to see him defend his main with a missle turret haha. oh the grass is always greener isnt it

3 Likes
19

dont get too butthurt about it, you likely do suck (so do i, no shame here)
but toss has the best defense and you suggested more so dont blame me for ridiculing your post, you asked for it. i know you just want to mine minerals and gas and never use spare apm to defend so you get a cannon or 2. but when thats not enough then you just become a joke ;D

The reall question is why do you assume i suck in the first place? You see everyone ranging from gold to gsl get killed by mines.

You shouldnt assume, it makes for poor judgement.

You really think toss has the best defense? lol. Terran by far has the best defensive options available. Widow mine being one of them, Tanks, liberators kill everything on the ground, and then turret spam kills everything in the air. That my friend is what the best defense looks like.

If you make 1 cannon, 1 shield battery you are already down 250 minerals. 2 oracles can literally kill an entire mineral line from protoss with this ‘best defense’ your reffering to. However, terran has to plant 2 turrets, or 2 mines and its over. No more harrass possible. and you actually kill the oracles in the process.

2 cannons also dont cover a widow mine drop. It cuts in your mineral production. And if you want an army when widow mines hit, you should be lucky to be able to even afford a single cannon without cutting into your production too much.

You realise protoss units actually cost approx 175% more per unit to make then terrans units right? If someone has 3 stalkers in position to deal with the drop, that is the same as 10 marines per mineral line. Cost for cost. Protoss needs a minimum of 3 stalkers to have enough DPS per mineral line to counteract it. so 6 stalkers purely for defense. Imagine terran putting 10 marines per base on hold position.

Then added to the double air dps of the turret.100 minerals for a single turret versus 300 for 2 cannons. And that does the same DPS… Most terrans place 2/3 turrets on the outskirts of there base. Should a protoss make … 4/6 cannons? We are entering bronze logic territory here.

Just because we have shield batteries for early game defense versus cheese and 1 base play. That doesnt mean they actually do a tremendous amount at all. Your essentially paying 100 minerals for a unit to have 300 shields more. On location. This only actually affects the game if stuff isnt one shot. Wich mines and liberators do.

2 Likes
20

I gladly spend 50 more minerals for a static defensev thats not my CC and can attack ground units

Then build mines. they are basically moving cannons.

1 Like