Raynor is way way way to weak
He have the most classic gameplay, in a mode created for buffed commander. SO here are a list of upgrade that will help him
-Hyperion come with no health bar and have all max weapon level
-Orbital is the default command center and no longer an upgrade.+ scan have no energy cost, can be stacked up to 3 time
-New capacity : Revenge of mercenaries (replace orbital station in the leveling tree ) : Target a group of units to turn them temporarely into Mercenary units.
-Additionnal healing is no longer a mastery talent, but is included in the medic upgrade in lab.
-Additionnal healing is replaced by Unity is strengh: a mastery talent increasing damage and resistance of biological units based on their number and proximity
-Vanadium armor change for vanadium alloy allowing also damage upgrade to increase attack speed.
-mechanic attack speed in Mastery 3 is replaced by Titanshock Ammunation, granting additionnal splash damage for every units of Raynor
-Orbital landing ability is now included in fast recruit. Replaced by Reactor- lab unlocking
-Orbital supply also grant 100% more supply.
-Armory is no longer necessary to get upgrade 2 and 3 for infantery
-Armory now combine upgrade for mechanical and flying units.
I hear you with some of the difficulties, but these suggestions are way out of balance. When they say Raynor has the most âclassicâ gameplay, they are talking Brood War multiplayer (heavy macro and micro, spam production). If you play him as such, he is already quite strong. Heck, even the first prestige makes him a deadly a-mover. The tradeoff is; heâs a little more work than some of the other commanders.
Iâm not saying Iâm great at Raynor, but I do feel like these changes clash with the way he works, you know? Iâd like to see the prestiges tweaked a bit, but thatâs true for most commanders. But overall, if you make him âmindlessâ youâll weaken his design philosophy too much.
I like Raynor just the way he is. I like that thereâs a commander that is in some sense ânot as goodâ because I play him for an additional level of difficulty. For that reason, I think heâs also very rewarding. When build orders are hit and his econ is humming, he can do really well.
My initial impression of P1 Raynor is âmeh.â Losing the orbitals and gaining double-health marines turns him in to low-rent Artanis or something.
If I was going to make any changes to Raynor, I would revisit the health/cost of his banshees and vikings. They are just not in line with brutal co op play IMO. But thatâs a nitpicky point; neither of those units ever have to be made as Raynor has plenty of other options.
Maybe actually play coop for longer than âwhat seems like a minuteâ to have a better understanding, you know before making crazy unfounded suggestions.
2 Likes
I think you misunderstood word WEAK with HARD TO PLAY.
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His P2 is lame but as a commander heâs fine. High skill floor which both P1 and P3 make easier depending on the comp you go with.
LilArrin would like to have a word with you.
9 Likes
I donât agree with the OP but this is simply not a rebuttal. One person, who is probably 1 of the 2 best co op players in the world, who can destroy using Raynor is not proof Raynor is strong. Itâs proof that LilArrin is really good.
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Yes it absolutely does because he wouldnât be able to do it otherwise
âVideo proof of someone completely disproving a statement doesnât countâ is absurd prima facie
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I think itâs most accurate to say that âRaynor is weakâ is a false or at least incomplete statement. Raynor has a very high ceiling if youâre utilizing his tools (multiple CC/mules, redundant production facilities, constant training to his rally points on the front line etc) to their potential. Most Raynor players however - particularly given the fact that he is a free commander and therefore attracts a lot of people who are inexperienced with co-op in general - donât use his toolkit and therefore he ends up weak most of the time that people see him. It doesnât mean the commander itself is weak, but it does mean that most games where your partner is Raynor end up with you having to carry, which gives the impression of weakness.
I think his P1 is excellent design in that it makes him easier and less punishing to use. P3 needs some tweaks (e.g. Armories and OC needing their tech requirements removed) but itâs also a fun and streamlined sort of prestige. His P2 should be reworked entirely though - probably making him more defense focused e.g. letting him drop fully-stocked bunkers like Mengsk does or improving his tanks or something.
1 Like
hahaha baseball isnât hard, Justin Verlander is practically unhittable
Nub, algebra isnât hard, Einstein taught himself when he was 12
Why donât you have a billion dollars? Jeff Bezos has 189 of them, you canât even get one? What a slacker.
One exceptional person doesnât prove s***. If anything, itâs evidence that it IS hard, and takes a remarkable person and/or extraordinary circumstances to make work. Raynor is hard to play, relative to other commanders. Quibble with whether that makes him weak, but for all intents and purposes I say Yes, it does.
3 Likes
Have to be precise on 2 thing
The list is not everything that will have to be implant at the same time but ideas for on or two implementation
The list does not implies P1234 because i didnât try them or have enough feedback on for now
Yeah not that this is relevant but logic is logic.
If everyone can play like LilA, then nobody would be arguing about many things on here.
Iâve advocated for ages about even on forums, there should be displayed levels, stats, and progression of the commenter. Itâs not a show off thing but a premise.
A player who comments like OP clearly didnât play coop extensively to understand Raynor well enough. While stats donât mean everything but it does give you some insight on why a person said what theyâve said.
1 Like
Not heâs not, but it is difficult to play well with him, making many orbitals early on and mix mech to support bio is a good start
I donât pretend to be the greatest Raynor player. Hell, I donât pretend to be the greatest co-op player either. But even I am perfectly capable of playing him halfway decently. Even with only 3 or 4 CCs, thatâs enough Mules to keep his bioball rolling through nearly every thing except heavy enemy AoE, and Prestige 1 even gets rid of the bioâs weakness to most forms of AoE (Disruptors still 1 shot marines even at 3 armor and 123 health, but any other AoE doesnât bother his bio in the slightest).
Iâm also probably one of the only players who enjoys his P2, as it gives all of his mech (ground and air) what is essentially Stimpack, which stacks with his Mech attack speed mastery and the +15% attack speed he gets at 15.
It doesnât take LiLa skill level to be good at Raynor. You just need basic game knowledge to be good at Raynor.
I am not that good and I wreck everything with Raynor. What you need to know is spam mule and spam marine. If you are P1, just spam marine(and occasionally some medics). Not that hard at all. Heck, I donât even upgrade my army because I am too lazy to bother.
Iâve seen some rather positive reception of P2, as the cost isnât all that significant.
Just for amusementâs sake I need to stack on drop pod attack increase every once in a while so I can watch a Siege Tank machine gun his cannon. (+15%+100%+60%+30% attack speed results in hilarity)
Why people ask for buffs instead of learning how to play?
Had a P1 Raynor with masteries ally against mass lings, he was making 2 marines at a time and losing them to 50 lings waves. Never once it occurred to him to make a firebat. Than I come to the forum and see this absurd âRaynor is weakâ nonsense. Are you for real?
Another one was playing P1 and went for BCâs. Never made OC, faced cloaked units in enemy waves and lost all his units.
Devs need to release a common sense patch, not buffs.
4 Likes
Raynor with p1 is absurdly strong already. Only the win button is missing, if you want to buff him 
No Firebat? Wut? Nevermind the fact that I always make a few because of 6 freaking armor and like 400 health, but none made to counter mass bio? That hurts my soul a bit.