PvT Was fun back

General Discussion
22

Yes, that’s why they got changed, a spell that could be denied by just moving a bit, and its speed was pretty poor, there was an achievement that was getting a missile and running away for many seconds, I think mutas could outrun the missile.

I started playing at Jan 2011, so I remember how the old raven was, a niche unit with low utility, today’s raven is more useful, it’s pretty standard in every matchup, except maybe tvz. Old raven was used mostly by Ketroc and proplayers in cancerous games.

I don’t think its worse, it brings more utility, you can deny psy/mech units, and can put a -2 armor tag on the enemy units, thats insane, hit a bunch of bio with a missile and you can demolish it with lower upgrades, you can use the raven to get a better position during tank fights, old was just ppd and praying for the missile to hit something, which is boring and with reduced usage.

It wasn’t OP, it was BORING,got changed to be more useful, during its last times it was a stalemate unit, bunch of ravens with PDD.

Felt weird, people wanted mobile mech, that hability was just ‘‘wait here for many seconds while you are being healed’’, and the the classic fact, nobody likes to make ravens because they come from a tech lab and cost a lot, better having cheap scv along the army.

23

I see ravens quite often when i play. Specially when I play toss. To IM my Colossus. HT is a different unit than the raven. Its less mobile, takes basically 1 shot to kill and is mainly there as an aoe damage unit. The raven isn’t the HT. Now you could say with the old seeker missile it was comparable. But the problem is you cant mass 200/200 HT and win a game. You could certainly do that with the old raven. I think 10+ HTs is a bit over kill, personally I build no more than 5 but thats just me. If you want to bring back mech repair for the raven Im cool with that btw.

I agree with you, this is the exact reason I don’t say toss is under powered because of their lack of wins. However there is no doubt they are still performing poorly. Even with a good amount of 2nd place finishes. I would take 1 Maru, inno, ty, serral, reynor, ect over millions of second place finishes any day of the week.

I may have been a bit harsh with my words earlier. I don’t mean to sound like I think toss is weak. Because I really dont. I think they are fine. My position is simply that they are not OP as everyone suggests. Because if they were we would see more tournament wins. You cant be op and at the same time be forever 2nd place. It makes no sense.

24

I mostly meant worse in terms of being a unit that you can mass and win games with.

25

Gold league and plat players: hold my beer
Amazing how they mass HT, you can see them with 12-16 HT clumped walkind around the map.Some dia players also like the HT spam, really nice when you hit them with a juicy EMP.

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26

lol well gold league not withstanding haha XDD

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27

Yes, as a backbone army unit is worse, the new unit I think is way better design wise, a little robot which grants you vision and packs some nice things.

But with the raven, I would go full support unit, removing the turret and adding something else.

28

Of course lets nerf it some more. has not the raven been beating up enough

29

You say “it could destroy the whole sky army with few seeker missles”, don’t you think that was the reason, why it got nerfed?

30

One storm can destory and entire bio army. Should not that get nerfed as well. or is that ok with you

31

One storm can kill only small group of marines. You can run out of storm area, while seeker missile fly to the target and non avoidable. Should I compare carrier and stim marines movement speed? Or about air unit stack? If terrans aren’t able to split 4.7 speed units, how do you imagine split 2.6 speed units? Or broodlords with less than 2?

32

And protoss still had the DPS to kill mines before they burrowed in the form of better adepts, photon overcharge. You want photon overcharge back in the game ? Sure let’s do it :slight_smile: I doubt you would want it tho

Yeah I mean, camping with broken siege tanks while building ravens and litteraly destroying entire armies must have been hella fun wasn’t it?

I laughed at that part tbh, terrans just build ravens in EVERY matchup because they are SO SO SO strong, they are good at harassing, dealing with creep, obs early on, early DTs, can deactivate immortals, archons, collosi, tanks,thors, other ravens, high templars. You name is, raven is very strong.

33

Please dont try to justify the raven as being strong especially when comparing it to its former self. It is not even close. Also the raven has always had lock down. its just good in only certain situations but no. I would rather have the old raven back. Perhaps you were not here for the old raven. and that is fine.

AT least blizzard shouldh have compensated us terrans with something… nope they just removed it.

On the other hand Zerg kinda knows how it feels look at what thye did to the infestor. now they just have to get rid of nueral to complete the “raven” treatment.

As far as the mine goes. ok I should not have mentioned the mine. I dont want to turn this into a hypothecial conversation of well we give you thaat back and you give us this back type of thing.

bottom line the match up was a lot more fun back then.

34

I don’t see ravens that often other than in TvT to disable siege tanks. Maybe they’re useful also in TvZ for killing creep. Either way, anything is “SO SO SO strong” when you look at them in a vacuum.

Zealot is SO SO SO strong 100/50 hp, only 100 minerals, send 10 to do a runby and force a huge response. Run into tanks and make them shoot themselves/kill for free. Send on a flank and single handedly destroy high value backline units. Plus you can warp in 10+ at a time almost instantly, OP!

Warp Prism is SO SO SO strong, pick up or drop instantly AND warp in any unit anywhere on the map outside of vision? DT warp in, zealot warp in, picking up colossi or keeping HT safe from EMP? OP!

35

Most of that didn’t change when lotv came around.

The HOTS nostalgia terran players like to say that LOTV economy was worse for Terran and made Protoss better, but all changes mentioned before where there 5 years ago with LOTV.

36

Starcraft 2 has the issue of spell spam and spellcasters being too offensive.

The Raven vs the Starcraft 1 Sci Vessel is massive.

Irradiate, EMP and Shield
Vs
Many changed layouts with
Turrets, Heatseeker, PDF, Repair Drone, Anti Armor and Interference Matrix.

Heatseeker is too offensive and the damage ought to have been moved to another unit. I would gladly trade the BCs tactical jump for the exact same ability.

37

Raven still is a keyunit in TvP.

Terran is in the best spot it ever has been (except maybe siegetank pickup phase).

38

Raven is LITTERALY built every single game in TvP as off now, the only counter to siege tanks pushes and SCV pulls is collosi, nobody ever goes templar because they suck and are far too unreliable…

TvZ it’s litteraly built quite often to replace BCs or deny creep which is a huge deal for terrans to not have to scan everytime.

TvT, you litteraly build 2-3 of them each game and try to keep them alive for as long as possible to win the game.

2 Likes
39

Terran players do not buid ravens, tell you the reason why we don’t build them. You do not even see ravens in pro games.

protoss to defend their race. I see at least 10 of them every game.

Me: calm down this is not about balance. just saying PvT used to be fun.

protoss players: Thats all you better be talking bout. I will watch over this thred just in case.

lol… its fine guys. I am not asking for anything. And no I do not build ravents in PvT rarely build them in TvT, Only build them in TvZ if I notice lurkers

40

Isn’t this the exact same thing terran players whine about with disruptors and storm?

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41

The short answer: Yes.