PvT Was fun back

General Discussion
1

I wanted to respond to this in a separate thread and felt this deserved its own separte thread.

The short version of my response is that you have the Raven and the raven not only made that match up fun but made the others fun as well. However, we are talking about PvT. We had heat seeker missle. DPP, and the raven even had mech heal at some point.

To add on to that we had cloaked mines from the beginning. As in didnt need an armory for it.

This one raven alone over came the inbal of the match up and just made it fun. MOST IMPORTANTLY IT WAS FUN. I did not post a single thread about the game back then either. Did not even go on youtube to watch some build order video eitther.

However the raven is a shell of it self. and the match up is not remotely fun on top of that is just feels broken… Its like there is just something missing from the match up. I can ad a list of things but its not to balance whine. just to point out that the match up was FUN back then. The game in general was more fun.

everyone got a gg from me and I played more team games. Now everyone gets gg except toss and I rarely if ever play team games.

2

I don’t remember the raven being a powerful tool in TvP, I remember it having the same role as now. What I remember was mass raven with mass pdd in tvt and tvz.

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3

The raven was an amazing unit. Everything that the raven does now. The old raven did it better and had better utilitiy. It was a must build. A couple heat seeker missles could destroy and entire sky toss army if they weren’t careful.

Everyone knows the Raven was at least 100 times better back then

Zerg understand what nefing the raven actually did to game play. Look at what nerfing the infestor did to them. Imagine if they nerfed the infestor more by completely removing neural parasite. You would have the raven. Imagine P had storm removed. You would have the raven. well in the templar placde maybe a reaper than can transform into a useful unit.

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Maybe thats why I don’t remember them being useful, once you went out of range they were useless.What I remember was when the raven was buffed, but that was during lotv, that raven could and did destroy sky armies, so well it was meta.

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5

I didn’t play ladder for HoTS, so the below isn’t sarcastic but an actual question

perhaps it was too good which is why it was “fun” for the user, which is why the ability was removed, much like Infester’s Infested Terran?

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6

One thing that i can say that terran lost was the Raven. I don’t get why blizzard removed the 15 damage seeker missile for a pretty useless ability. I much prefer if the anti-armor missile was removed and instead an ability like what beastyqt suggested was added.

The ability was a missile that has a 3 second arming time and does 100 damage over 10 seconds for 100 mana. And within the 3 seconds the targeted unit will be highlighted. Not OP by any means cos its garbage compared to storm and has a ton of counter play, but I can see some uses for it in ultra lategame TvZ, PvT.

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7

If they are out of range that means you are safe. and if you have multiple ravens you could just squeeze them good times. I guess it depends on when you started playing. From my point of view the raven has been trash for a very long time.

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Just do proxy 3 rax marauder in TvP with a fake rax at home that you cancel after fending off the scouting probe. EZ wins every game.

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It could have been that the Raven was a little op. However, since it was signficantly nerfed nothing was given to make up that type of damage out put. yet the other races stayed the same. Until the infestor was nerfed recently. I am not saying that missing the raven cannot be over come you can still win but it just feels like Terran is missing something expecially in PvT.

Going back to the infestor. removing neural parastite and giving it someother useless ability would put it to the raven status. as it is now the raven is the worst caster in the game.

I dont want to make this about casters I am just saying that the fun was taken out of the match up and was never replaced

10

Another thing that was nerfed was proxies and we all know the affects of that as well. Maru hasnt won anything since. Just saying.

11

And toss hasn’t won anything in years sooooo

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12

Balance is not really about wins/losses. or who won what tournament.
Wins losses are subjective. Who wins the pro tournamnet depends on who the best player is. Right now the consensus is that it is serral who is winning the majority of the tournaments he plays in know matter who else is in it.

I am sure that would skew the numbers just a little.

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Right? This is some rose colored glasses crap right here. You think it is imbalanced now but you want to back to when Protoss had the death ball? Ok, have fun losing even harder.

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As for the raven I’ll say the same thing I said about it when it got nerfed. The raven was never ment to be a main battle unit. It is a support caster. You are ment to make 1-4 of them and use them to support the main army. Which it does. It has AAM and Interference matrix. Now is it worse than the old version? Of course it is. But the old version was more of a main battle unit not a support caster. The match up not being fun I feel is quite subjective.

So then why bring up Maru not winning? If it is subjective. I agree that its not the end all be all for balance, and I don’t bring it up to imply toss is weak. However I still feel its asinine to say toss is op when they are performing piss poorly at the highest level.

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15

Raven’s current hsm could see some changes for sure, but hsm and pdd were both cancer.

It was almost insulting that it took terran players till hots to learn that they had the most overpowered caster, and even then it only got nerfed when it became a problem in tvt…

And blizzard lets terran keep free auto-turret but removes infested terran, such bs.

As for beastyqt’s suggestion, it is just pb that affect ground also, no? If so it is crazy op.

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I agreed that it could have been just a little OP. but it is worthless now. rarely worth building. You say build 1 to 4 of them. you rarely see one of them get built in any match up. You have a better chance of a reaper being built before you see a raven. that is how bad the raven was nerfed. so much a support unit.

You say it should be a support unit and not a main unit. but what about the templar. that is more than a support unit. Ther are games where I see 10+ of them and that is not to morph into archons either. Right now that is more of an battle/attack unit than a caster. Should something happen to that unit as well or is it only terran and zerg casters to a lower extent that needs the “raven” type of nerf.

Also not winning a major tournament does not mean protoss is not more than successful. Nearly 40% in GM. and makes it to the finals if not semi every single tournament. the only reason they are not clossing the deal is because they are running into the best player in the world. In many cases that was serral and terrans couldnt get pass him either.

To say they are performing poorly is being completely biased.

17

What about the ability to heal mech. Did they have to remove that as well. they copmletely gutted the raven and reworked it.

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I liked that ability but iirc the reason given for that ability’s removal was because it overlapped with scv and was underpowered. I’d be fine if they added it back.

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19

I rather have that then the heat seaker missle in its current state. i wouldnt mine if they added as a feature that we had to ugprade to…
Lets Make Mech Great Again lol

21

it healed for the duration that it was there forced armies to retretat as soon as it was casted. Also in the end game if you didnt have resources you could cast to heal your entire mech army. it was amazing.

Either way wish ful thinking. they will never revert the raven. i wouldnt even mine requiring and upgrade for raven damage and they can make it different tiers. thatwould even be find by me.

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