i dont understand how you all think early game bs is fun to watch. Oh look he made two reapers and killed three workers…..SOOOO EXCITING!!! Oh look the toss is going double adept and kills 4 workers….. YAYYYY! nah thats boring, not exciting in any way. This is the games you all are gonna get. None of that is fun to watch. Pro game copy paste builds are boring.
It sounds like you have no pre-LotV frame of reference. But I also think Adepts should be more combat-focused in design than harassment-focused.
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55%, not 35%. Blizzard’s tooltip is wrong. If you look at the numbers (18 versus 28) and do the math (28/18) you get about 1.555555, which is a 55% production rate increase.
The 35% is the “reduction in build time”, which is a different stat. I don’t know why everyone seems to miss that.
I don’t think the change is a problem, I’m just annoyed that people aren’t getting the numbers right.
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The long warp gate research blocking production + individual cost to transform seems really clunky and detrimental together.
It’s now 3-4x more expensive to get to same opening as before with a significant portion of that unable to produce units from a gateway. [Keep in mind that the other races are not incurring a similar cost neither early game or throughout.]
Simplify it more to how add-ons for Terrans work.
–Make every Gateway able to transform into a Warp Gate if a Cybernetics Core is built.
–Have a small cost (per Gateway > Warp Gate transformation), whether that’s still 50/50, or 50/25, or 25/25 and a short build time like 18 or 36 seconds just as Terran add-ons have.
–Put ‘Advanced Warp Gate Research’ (100+ seconds) as an upgrade on Cybernetics Core, which removes the added build time for Warp Gates, speeds up non-warp gate production (like the PTR), and maybe removes or reduces cost for each Warp Gate’s first transform.*
That way if you want to push fast warp gates you can, but it’s more expensive per gate and requires each to have a short tradeoff in down time like add-ons.
But if you’re pressured early, you can keep producing from Gateways without having to stop production to get Warp Gate and instead use the Cybernetics Core for ‘Advanced Warp Research’ to speed up Gateway production and Warp Gate transformation (while also possibly removing/reducing the individual cost).
All of these warp gate changes will have to be balanced with how fast it can be acquired vs opponents possible defenses at that time, so if transforming individual Warp Gates before the Cybernetics Core upgrade is too strong, just increase the Non-Upgraded warp cool down length to compensate as needed or tweak the cost/time per individual Warp Gate transformation.
Ideally this would open up more options for interesting openers with different cost and timings for each.
*Given that the upgrade both reduces Gateway production time and possibly reduces individual Warp Gate transform cost, ‘Advanced Warp Gate Research’ maybe have to be adjusted in both time and cost for what it provides.
its just straight boring man, no matter how you want to put it watching 2 units do 4 kills at most is completely boring gameplay. Pro matchs are some of the most overrated matchs to watch. id rather watch two silver leagues go at it any day of the week, at least its funny and comical which makes better entertainment.
you can blame the patch notes for that. if its actually a 55% increase then the patch notes need adjusted.
This is just straight-up reductionist.
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This is the work of the reforged garbage intern that wreck the warcraft 3 earlier.. I wished he would not land his fel on the world of starcraft.
This PTR looks like a mess.
I don’t know if it’s a good mess or a bad mess. Lots and lots of massive changes but this looks like a ‘proxy a pylon and kill with warp gates’ meta.
Also looks like Zerg is getting screwed disproportionately.
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You’re conflating “total build time” with “percent faster to build”. [Apparently TerranicII thought “production time” and “production rate” were interchangeable and meant the same thing, when they are inversely proportional]
If something takes 100 seconds and then an upgrade “speeds up production time by 25%.” 25 is 25% of 100, so instead of taking 100 seconds it is 75s = 100 - 25.
If you then take 100/75 = 1.333 and say it “speeds up production time by 133%” [you ignored the 1 in 1.55 btw] you would be absolutely wrong and still wrong if you say it speeds it up production time by 33% [again ignoring the 1] as that would be 66.666 seconds.
100 seconds takes 133% as long as 75 seconds because 25 goes into 100 exactly 4 times and goes into 75 exactly 3 times, so you need 1x more 25s. 25 seconds is 1/3 of 75 or 0.333. So to get 100, you need (3/3 + 1/3) x 75 which is 4/3 or 1.333 x 75 = 100.
75 is 25% faster than 100. And 100 is 133% as long as 75.
You claim the increase is 55% faster production time, but than means it it should be cut by more than half, right? Well half of 28 seconds is 14 seconds, so 18 seconds can’t be 55% percent faster production time.
28 seconds is 155% the build time of 18 seconds [again don’t ignore the 1 in 1.55], which is 10 seconds faster. 10 seconds / 28 seconds is 0.3571 or about 35% (rounded down because of whole number build times).
You can also do this by finding out what percentage the faster number is from the slower number. 18 seconds / 28 seconds = 0.6428 or 18 is 64.28% the build time of 28 seconds. 100% – 64.28% = 35.72% and viola you have how much faster 18 seconds is than 28 seconds, which is 10 seconds aka ~35% (with rounding for whole number production times).
Going by your math, 50 seconds, which is a 50% faster production time than a 100 seconds production time, would be 100/50 = 2… soo 50 seconds is speeding up production time by 200%! Wowwee negative time! Except you ignored the 1’s position so maybe you think it’s 0% faster production time or you’re further confusing percentages so you think it’s 2 - 1 so 100% faster production time. [Again, as we later found out, TerranicII was conflating “production time” with “production rate” and still think they are interchangeable, when they are instead directly related inversely, 50% faster time is equal to 2x the rate or a 100% production rate increase, hence your confusion.]
100 seconds is twice as long as 50 seconds (hence the real math). So 100 seconds is in fact 100% “slower” production time than 50 seconds, 100% being 50 addition seconds so 50 + 50 =100 seconds. 100 seconds is also 200% the total production time of 50 seconds, aka a 100% increase (or slow down) in production time.
For something to “speed up production time by 100%” would be to reduce the production time to 0 seconds. So saying something “speeds up production time by 200% or 155%” is nonsensical in the same way as saying “you reduced drug costs by 600%”.
So, Warpgate Research speeds up Gateway unit production time by ~35%, not 55% because a 50% speed up to production time would be 14 seconds of 28 seconds and 18 seconds in not shorter than 14 seconds which would have to be the case for >50% speed up.
im not conflating anything, the patch notes state its 35%, and terranic has already done the math, which it turns out is 55%. so kindly take your math skills and put it to reading further post before you post a bunch of bla bla bla in the forums.
oh look another person who has no sc2 history whats so ever, not a single game to his name
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I played since WoL through LotV and like many people are reinterested with new changes.
You obviously didn’t read anything, but simply explain if 50% faster from 28 seconds is 14 seconds, how can 18 seconds, which is slower than 14 seconds = 55% faster.
If you can figure that out, you can figure out why your math is wrong.
you have no history whatsoever, so kindly take your opinions else where.
also im not the one who stated its 55%, learn to read post, that would be terranic, ive only stated the 35% thats stated in the patch notes
Answer the simple math. Why can’t you do simple math?
50% of 28 is 14 seconds. So 55% faster should be less than 14 seconds. (Hint 55% faster would be 12.6 seconds, which is faster than 14 seconds, which 18 seconds is not….)
Explain how 18 seconds build time is faster than 14 seconds build time. That’s all you have to do.
Easy. Don’t even have to be GM for that math.
again, for the third time bud, i didnt state it was 55%, that was terranic, again learn to read. maybe put your math skills aside and learn to read post.
also your opinions dont matter as you dont play the game.
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55%, not 35%. Blizzard’s tooltip is wrong. If you look at the numbers (18 versus 28) and do the math (28/18) you get about 1.555555, which is a 55% production rate increase.
The 35% is the “reduction in build time”, which is a different stat. I don’t know why everyone seems to miss that.
I don’t think the change is a problem, I’m just annoyed that people aren’t getting the numbers right.
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You still didn’t do the math yourself. You’re both wrong and can’t even do simple math.
He did it wrong and you didn’t check to see if it was correct and instead put it forth as “which it turns out is 55%”, which no… it doesnt turn out to be 55%.
“Oh I just repeated what someone else said without confirming it to be accurate” is wild thing to double and triple down on.
I provided copious examples of how the elementary grade school math works and you still couldn’t even get it right. That’s not a good look.
And why on earth would I care about SC2 if I never played….? SC2 was my favorite game for over a decade and now that big changes are coming through a lot of us are coming back, pro’s included.
But you don’t have to be a professional Starcraft 2 player to understand basic percentage math… but apparently that’s too much to ask for the both of you.
bud ive stated from the get go ive only said what the patch notes tell us, for the fourth time i never stated its 55%.
all your doing right now is making your self look bad by trying to yell at me. and on top of all that you havent even played the game since before sc2pulse started tracking accounts, meaning your opinion dont matter to me what so ever.
all im hearing from you is bla bla bla bla bla.
show me where i repeated it cause i never did.
now kindly either go call out the right person, or leave me alone, cause again i dont care what a person who doesnt play the game has to say, ever.
And the patch notes are correct.
In your reply to me you said “…and terranic has already done the math, which it turns out is 55%”.
No he didn’t do the math, he didn’t understand the math and you didn’t bother to check to see if he was correct ever.
At any point you could’ve done the math yourself, but you didn’t. You could’ve when you said that the patch notes should be changed, but you didn’t. You could’ve before you replied to me, but you didn’t. You could still do it now and see for yourself instead of just saying “terranic has already done the math, which it turns out is 55%”…
The only thing you did was try to ignore it and discredit anyone who played the game for 11-12 years as someone who has “zero games played” on a site that didn’t exist until 2021 and can’t track private accounts or even unranked matches?
Dude, it’s simple math which you didn’t bother or couldn’t check yourself. You (or him) could’ve double checked it, but you didn’t… that’s all.
I gave the most basic explanations and examples so yall could figure it out correctly and not spread misinformation (and hell, maybe learn something about percentage math) but even then you ignore it and repeat: “terranic has already done the math, which it turns out is 55%”
As for your belief that players who played a 16 year old game for over a decade can’t possibly have any input into changes that revert the economy closer to how it was originally… well that’s just more of your ignorance showing.
The changes have us, the original fans, excited to get back into it. There were millions of more players playing regularly before it died out, but I guess to you none of them could have any feedback on the largest changes since they played…
bud your the one who replied to my post in the first place acting like i was one who said it and did the math. again terranic is. i simply stated that was HIS math. NOT THAT ITS FACT. again, all you are doing is trying to cause trouble on the forums at this point.
you havent played the game for over a decade. if you played wol hots thats only 4-5 years at most. plus you have no record in sc2 pulse which has been keeping track of account since back in 2016, and the game came out in 2010. meaning you played and gave up on the game cause you couldnt hack it, unlike us lifers who have been playing from the get go. so again your opinion dont matter, you gave up playing long ago.
I played for over a decade, past LotV and even occasionally after SC2 pulse came out. It doesn’t track private accounts.