Lol buddy I’ve been playing since WoL, I played Random in diamond consistently through HotS and LotV when I was playing regularly and most of my games are in 1v1s. I was around when everyone’s data got screwed up including hundreds of posts in my forum history. I’m not the most skilled player here but I’ve been through patches and seen the results of them since pretty close to the beginning. You can ask any of the long-time posters who have been here long before you.
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wow, thats even worse considering you only have 2k games, in 16 years. thats not a flex, just shows how often you actually play. Thats like playing 3 games a month
Let me know when you are playing 1v1s with Random in diamond consistently.
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1v1 is boring so no, i only play teams. and have been consistintly diamond 2 for awhile now. I play more games in 1 day then you do in a year.
The game is not balanced for teams play, it is balanced for 1v1s. It’s fine that you play teams if that’s what’s fun for you, but that’s not anything near a replacement for 1v1 experience.
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bud i see more cheese in 1 day then most pros do in a week. let alone all the rest of the bs i have to put up with. you try soloing 3v1 when 2 of your teammates are total new players with less than 30 apm put together. again the reason i dont play 1v1 is its just boring. theres not enough going on to keep my attention. More people play teams than 1v1, we already did the math in another post here on the forums. its almost double the players. yes its not balanced for teams, but this is where the player base actually is.
Ok even if that’s true, that doesn’t change that teams experience doesn’t replace 1s experience. Also that “less than 2k games” number goes back to what year? My career shows 7k games which yeah isn’t a lot compared to many but I don’t know where you are getting your data from.
In any case, neither one of our experience levels change anything about this:
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your sc2 pulse record shows less than 2k games total in your entire stacraft career. edit: checking it goes back 2017. so well give you the benifit of the doubt and say you have that extra 4k. even then 7k games in 16 years your still just a casual player and not a lifer.
as for teams not comparing to 1v1 experience, sure it dont, but the same can be said of 1v1, most people who play 1v1 cant play teams at all and are terrible playing it cause they cant understand there facing multiple oppenants rather than a single person, yet still play like there facing 1v1.
now lets get to countering your 50/50 argument. in the early game most people dont go warpgate right away cause there trying to cheese. infact the only real warpgate strat early cheese is the dt rush. So thank god its getting nerfed. most players usually do 2gate adept rushes early on or 4 gate proxy zelot. none of which they even bother with warpgate that early. Its not till usually midgame you really see warp gate action in full effect and by then the 5050 doesnt actually matter.
and now with the new patch, just researching warpgate gives a 35% bonus on production speed, which is a huge upgrade.
I don’t play nearly as much as I used to, I’ll say that, and have never been dedicated enough for GM-level play (and neither have you). Nevertheless, I have seen the effects of balance and design patches over a lot of years, and the effects of things that haven’t changed since the time of WoL that have necessitated bandaid patch after bandaid patch. This Warp Gate change is one of the few changes I’ve actually seen over all that time that brings a significant challenge to one of the things that has been bad for the design of the game since the start, that thing being a one-time-cost Warp Gate that is strictly better than Gateway production. This is a radical shift in the right direction that was needed since early WoL.
Ok, none of that changes that balance patches are oriented towards 1v1 so the experience in teams games is largely irrelevant to balance discussions.
Does it also lock up that Gateway from being used while the research is happening? Regardless, if cheese ends up being too much of an issue, it’s easy enough to require a later tech structure to research it, or to extend the time. I’m not married to the idea of it being at Gateway tech. These are the core game-changers:
- A cost for each Warp Gate to transform
- Warp Gate cooldown being slower than Gateway production speed which makes it a tradeoff
What tech level the upgrade is at is easy to adjust. The core shift for the game as a whole resides in those two changes.
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then why does it seem your aguing against it. your not making sense. your sitting here claming its bad cause it cost that much, yet now your here saying good it needed it. your talking circles right now.
just cause the game aint balance for teams and doesnt mean we dont still feel the same effects of the patch. we just feel it harder having to deal with multiple race changes at once.
YES, you can not build from the gateway while researching warp. but once warp is finished every gateway gets a 35 % bonus production speed making almost as fast as warpins, almost.
as of right now with the eco the way it is on the new patch the cheeses for toss are really really limited. so no you probably wont see any crazy warp gate cheese like dt rushs. which again is a good thing. the early dt rush is almost always a game killer if you didnt scout it.
bud if i wanted to put my mind to playing endless boring games of 1v1 i could easilly be masters gm level with the amount of time i already put into this game on the daily. frankly being diamond on solo queu for teams is basically masters 1v1, since we dont actually have a gm bracket.
and just to put it out there i probably play around 30 games a day
I said 800/200 is not a buff. I did not say it’s bad that it’s not a buff. If someone is treating it like it’s a buff, they are wrong, that is my point.
Ok, it’s fine to feel that way and be honest about it. Balance patches are still implemented overwhelmingly for the sake of 1v1 games.
Ok, and units created from Gateways can’t be spawned in at Pylons that are far away from the Gateways. That’s a good tradeoff.
I don’t disagree with you here, but I was initially addressing your premise that Protoss will be OP because of proxy Zealot cheese, now you’re saying that the new cheeses for toss are really limited? “your not making sense…your talking circles right now.” Like, ok, I guess I’ll be more specific- if proxy Zealot cheese ends up being too strong then it’s easy to adjust the tech level requirement for Warp Gate.
Maybe you would, who knows.
This is not the kind of claim you want to make if you want people to take you seriously.
Good for you, I’m probably never going to get back to that amount of time and gameplay since I need to sow that time into my life and family now. If that eventually makes me a worse player than you, you can have that “I’m a better player than NinjaDuckBob” achievement, I’m at peace with that.
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i never said it was a buff i just said that the 5050 aint really alot. but that was also my bad cause the way i was reading the patch notes it sounded like that was just for all the gates, not every single one, which was clarified by others already. which now means you didnt really bother to read later post.
proxy zelot, key word proxy, your missing the point of it. if someones proxying gateways and zelot rushing yes i can see it definitly being op with the 35% speed bonus.
i already played a couple games on the patch and posted how the zerg felt with the new eco. if a zelot rush hits fast enough zerg is pretty much doomed, even with an 8 pool
also i just want to point out that over the past two days the patch has been live multiple protoss streamers and youtubers have already stated your better off in the long run not even getting warp gate, and instead building mass gateway, with the new 35% build speed upgrade. basically toss is becomeing more like terran. you only really want a few warpgates to warp in harass with the drop ship ( for the life of me im brainfarting and cant think of the name of it)
Warp Prism. I think what you’re describing here is a Protoss that’s much better for the game than the Warp Gate-centric Protoss, and makes way for potential future changes that are also better for the game.
Regarding the 50/50, it’s my bad for not paying enough attention to the later posts.
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yes warp prism, lol. for me i am likeing the protoss changes, for the most part, but not with the eco and 35% speed boost. if they get rid of the 8 worker start i can deal with the producton boost, but not both at the same time. like i said in a previous post zerg feel terrible like its been kneecapped.
There are ways to explore for that while maintaining the 8-worker start if it proves to be a consistent issue. Zergling speed, Baneling Nest, and Roach Warren could all either be cheaper or faster to build if such a change proves to be healthy for all matchups.
my main issue with the worker start is, everything feels slower. I dont like 1v1 for this very reason, the matchs are slow and boring. Making it even slower than it already is, is really off puting to me. I may play alot of games in a day, but i dont have time to be playing a bunch at once let alone having one drag on longer than needed, all cause a few bad actors want to shake up the game, or so that new players have a better start. Infact i hate new players with a passion cause they almost always jump on team games and i kid you not im usually the one who gets stuck with them. for instance out of about 20 games today 10 of them were facing 3 diamonds with me getting silver and gold league on my team. the game really needs to be put behind a pay wall again and the match making algo fixed so new players only play new players. for anyone that says oh lets slow the game down for new players, guess what if they cant hack it now they still wont be able to hack it on this patch either. the people who do play regularly will eventually figure things out and it will be the same bs problem that there trying to fix.
Garbage? The 12 worker speed start was what made half the player base run. Nobody except whoever is left playing this dead game wanted it. I hope this brings the game back to life, now the early game matters more. We can stay on 1-2 base much longer.
Yeah that’s a preference thing, I prefer fewer games with more early game build order variety over “fast expand every game.” Moving the “greed bar” higher is something I think makes for a game that is both more fun to watch and more fun to play, I remember some of the most fun pro games to watch from back in the day resulted from wild build order creativity in a way that we don’t have in LotV. Yeah, some games may take longer, but having fewer games in the amount of time to play is fine if those games are more fun. And yeah, I’m Random, but I do give away my race at the start because I love build order strategy on an even playing field.
Going to 8 workers instead of back to 6, combined with the Warp Gate changes, I think help to cut down on some of the “unfun” aspects that were on the other side of that early game variety. Now if they can also figure out how to balance the game without Forcefield being a thing, I’d be ecstatic.
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