They don’t always happen at the same time or at the same worker count. They’re not specific timings, they’re just attacks with roaches and ravagers. To say that these “timing” need to be nerfed means Zerg shouldn’t have any opportunity to be aggressive at all.
Gladepts are a timing, and years ago hydra ling bane was a timing. Attacking at random times with roaches isn’t a timing. The only reason these attacks are successful is specifically because the Protoss doesn’t see them coming because they’re not predictable. The adept build IS predictable and still insanely difficult to stop. That’s why it’s a timing.
The reason I’m mentioning 4.0 is because that’s what the discussion was about. And it is a FACT that after 4.0 Protoss never won a bigtime premier tournament to this very day.
4.0 was worse than 3.8 for the lategame imo. The tempest change in 3.8 was significant but Tempests could still fulfill their main role. Also the zealot charge buff of 3.8 was really good.
4.0 saw the castration of the colossus. It went from deathball pillar to meme unit. If you want to start bringing up other races, Infested Terrans got their rocket launcher anti air, and Ravens and ghosts were buffed.
The liberator nerf of 4.0 wasn’t really relevant to the lategame.
I’m not arguing that 2018 was a relatively bad year for protoss in all respects. This topic is about winning tournaments. And it is unequivocal that after 2017 Protoss NEVER won a big tournament. Blaming it on maru and serral is disingenuous too.
Look at the top 10 over the last year and tell us again how protoss has the most players in top 10 since 2018 pls
I agree with you here. Zerg has been the weakest race in LotV except for like a year, when it was the middle race imo. It has never been the strongest race imo
Dude I’m not going to rant about each patch. I only brought up 4.0 because that’s what stretch started talking about.
And like i said already - I think the colossus nerf in 4.0 was bigger than the tempest in 3.8. Colossus is a backbone of defensive protoss play as well as a pillar of the old protoss lategame deathball. We are talking about highest level play here, and top protoss players were able to hold it off and go into the lategame.
I cant tell if youre serious about shield batteries either.
Saying blink stalkers were nerfed in 4.0 is nothing but trolling. That was the number one complaint about TvP. Colossus were a dead unit not being used against ling hydra timings in ZvP and for tvp stalkers getting 2 shot by libs made stalker colossus comps virtually unplayable. There was a reason adept phoenix was the main unit composition prior to 3.8.
XD with 7 range by default meant Protoss was able to spare the 200 200 upgrade to produce more units allowing them to survive easier with a low colossus count.
For anyone interested in Protoss performance in premier tournaments/ or tournaments where the highest caliber players play:
(I included all the ongoing premier events and ones that are done + stay at homestory cups I ignored team championships.)
Premier tournament victories + homestory cup (since big boys play at homestory)
4 Zergs, 2 Terrans, 0 Protoss
Protoss winrates:
PvZ : 41.1% (152 for toss 218 for Zerg)
PvT : 49.7% (205 for toss 207 for Terran)
I’m not implying that Zerg is OP but its just that every metric of Protoss results points towards Protoss being absolute trash at PvZ and Trash overall in tournaments. The fact that some people here still try excuse that ProToSS plAyErs LacK SkIL or the parrot whining Terrans complaining about toss being OP with their profound knowlege boggles my mind. Like Jesus those stats are sad.
Which meant that you 3 shot marines by default, while having no risk at all of going twilight first due to the widow mine nerf and not having to spend 100 gas on a MSC. If you want pro league testimonies there’s a 2 hour long rant by TY (ironic last thread of yours) about it.
So you agree with me that stalkers were nerfed in 4.0 then? What are you saying is me trolling?
I’ve said in other topics that stalkers have to be treated carefully since they can be broken against Terran in the early game. I never said that stalkers should be able to 3 shot marines.
Zerg was in the same boat in 2017 as Protoss is now and yet the forums was nothing but Zerg OP threads. Do you expect there to be equal win rates, equal premier tournament wins and equal representation?
As you might know already Im of the opinion zerg has been the weakest race in all of LotV except for like a year or less when it was the middle race.
I don’t believe premier tournament wins necessarily indicate balance either. I’m just talking about why Protoss might not be winning trophies at the highest level.
On paper their DPS is almost identical, but since their single attack became higher they became more effective at sniping medivacs and doing blink harass. For practical purposes they got buffed.
No, it’s literally the best method to rank players because it’s based directly on tournament performance
That is not an argument. On the Ladder all that happens is Protoss are beating Terrans, Terrans are beating Protoss, protoss are beating Zergs, Zergs are beating Protoss, Terrans are beatin Zergs and Zergs are beating Terrans. Terrans are beating Terrans, Protoss are beating Protoss and Zerg are beating Zerg.
The only thing wrong here is the “alarming rate” -which you added for emotional impact.
That is simply not true and just a propaganda trick when one states some BS as a fact.
If that was true then you would see Protoss populate Dia/Master/GM and terrans Bronze/Silver/Gold.
So? Does that mean banes/ravagers/marines/tanks are not used in timings that are hard to hold? Because they have to cross the map? Lol.
Should timing attacks NOT be hard to hold? Should they not exist at all? Or only for protoss?
I’d also like to point it that you’re not even arguing about a real all in attack,you are literally “concerned” about something that could possibly be used in a timing attack.
Basically balance whining about something that isn’t even real. If that’s not bias I don’t know what is.
You would also have to proxy any non gate unit you intend to all in with so your logic is anything but.
The tempest argument is theory craft trash. You apply a check list approach to it , but in the end you have a trash unit that costs a lot and kills nothing, and on the other hand a thor that’s borderline OP.
A unit should be judged by its ability to do its job, and the tempest literally sucks at everything.
But you think it can’t be buffed because “in theory” or because it “could” be used in an all in.
How about we wait and see?