I honestly think they dragoonafy the immortals more. Protoss don’t have any high DPS units ground units and stalkers as an AA option in the mid and late game is very lackluster against Roaches, Marines, hydras, and Marauders. I’m not also a fan of the Blink micro. Stalkers are imo just as useful as Dark Templars but Protoss are forced to use them as the only ground AA option available. I feel most strongly about point no.1 . Thors can kill Tempests and Carriers/Battlecruisers and broodlords from a mile away and still hit hard. a few Liberators do too well against both stalkers and immortals. Phoenixes and voidrays don’t do too well against corruptors and vikings and these units along with stalkers do less than mediocre performance protecting colossi. I would also want immortals to get the same range upgrade that OG dragoons used to get. Its not too crazy for immortals to be cheaper, faster produced, and shoot air. Marines and Hydras have almost the same DPS as Immortals and they are cheaper, faster produced and shoot air and still cost less supply(4 times less) and better massed produced fast; Immortals being built one at a time by robos while marines come out 2 at a time of reactored barracks and hydras being popped like popcorn off heavily injected Hatches. Immortals are just a bit sturdier than marines and hydras but less DPS .I see stalker more akin to reapers and adepts : built early game but switched out for better units later like the immortal variation I’m suggesting. After early game during mid game, stalkers can still be used to blink into enemy for a surround or, scouting potshots.
Protoss changes:
Decrease cost of immortals to 200/100, Decrease build time by 25%, and enable them to shoot air. Protoss has no answer to broodlords, Liberators except Tempests which is just sad.
Let Sentries Restore Shields using Gaurdian Shield ability instead of reducing projectile damage. Medievacs Heal and Queens Heals
Increase Feedback Range to same as Ghost Steady targeting range, Feedback doesn’t kill any castor units less full energy which is never in a real game. Vipers can just top-up energy with consume and Ghosts are cheap as hell .
Bring back Maelstrom ability from broodwars or let stasis units be attacked because Widow Mines Kill and Baneling Mines Kill but only Stasis mines are Pacifist, why?
Motherships need an toggle ability to turn off cloak and turn on a Large Warp pylon field that can move instead of time warp ability. For better support role than just a Flex of wealth.
Make Nexus recall ability and Battery overcharge ability Local and not Global and make recalling units with Nexus faster. All Nexuses having a global cooldown for Battery Overcharge and Recall is absurd since Battery overcharge was nerfed and Recall field isn’t that large. If two Nexuses are under attack then only one be protected with BO and even though there are more than one nexuses on the map I can only recall units to one specific nexus to protect it.
Let Disruptor move while purification nova is moving about. Since nova radius was nerfed. The Disruptor should change tiers with the immortal. Lets immortals be available after robotics bay and Disruptors be available before robotics bay
Let interceptors already fighting stay in fighting even while the Carrier has moved away until the player recalls them back into the Carrier manually with an ability key so that I can choose to let my interceptors be cannon fodder while I evacuate my Carriers. Increase interceptor launch range to be same as tether range. Carriers are expensive and Interceptors also cost minerals.
Increase range to 5 and also give them Blink ability.
Remove the Colossus bonus against light and double their base damage against everything. Its a good trade since Colossi can targeted by corruptors and vikings and Impact mode Thors.
Combine Shield and Armor Upgrade into one single upgrade. Just like ground mech and sky mech for terrans. Protoss units having more effective life than zerg or terran is a joke if they lag behind. 1-1 upgrade for terran and zerg is just 1-1/2 for protoss.
Terran and Zerg changes:
Make Ghost EMP bombs strip 25 shield units per bomb than all at once. They are too powerful against Protoss since they can be tossed out from Ghosts like Tictacs . The original EMP from science vessels were much more balanced
Remove Concussion shells and make Stimpacks only affect Marauder movement speed only. Concuss slowing down units sounds like nonsense that should just stay in the campaign.
Remove Overlord’s create creep ability or, make it available after Hive.
I would also add the vortex ability back to the mothership.
Make cannons cost 75 minerals, so that protoss could cannon-rush with twice as many cannons.
I think disruptors cooldown should be decreased by 10 seconds.
I would change the HT abilities. It should be on cooldown, instead of using energy, so that ghosts could never EMP them. 1 HT should be able to hold up to 10 storms and 5 EMPs.
I think with the addition of these changes (together with yours of course) the game would be way more balanced, than it currently is.
The Vortex is dumb. Protoss units cost a lot more supply than Terran and Zerg Units. Having a way to bring in more units faster to a fight is better. Protoss is about efficiency than cheapness. The size of 120 pop terran/zerg is not the same size as 120 protoss. Right now, Terran/zerg replenish units faster than protoss. Only Warpgates build fast not Stargates or Robos. Whereas, Terran with reactored Barracks/Starports/Factories and Zerg with Multi-bases and Macro hatches definitely do better.
I don’t like cannon rushing as evident with my point no. 7 . Would you rather have immortal/prism micro instead.
So you think its fair that a purification nova disappears if the disruptor is killed with stim. OG reavers didn’t suffer that problem.
Feedback change still too OP for you but chained Steady targeting ability is not.
If i can add few cents to the discussion i will tell you that Steady targeting is garbage and i hate it because it doesnt work vs protoss (and even vs zerg after most recent patch its effictiveness is questionable at best). Vs P the only viable targets for ST are zealots and DTs. HTs will beat ghosts with instant feedback. So how can protoss player complain about steady targeting ? EMP sure, but snipe ?
HTs are slow, Feedback isn’t lethal anymore and you can’t chain Feedback on one target. I’m not complaining against Steady targeting, I just saying feedback would be more useful against Vipers and Ghosts if it had the same range as Steady Targeting. Infact, Feedback losing its damaging ability would still be as useful as it is now. But being able to Feedback at the same ranges as Abduct/EMP would mean something meaningful. Steady targeting has OP range and a Pacifist ability like Feedback would benefit greatly from it.
i don’t know if this is better or worse when you include p.7.
maybe you just swapped one chess unit for another.
a row of sb/cannons and 3-4+ disruptors that poke constantly.
current disruptor is cheaper than immortal.
Terran and Zerg have really nothing to complain about when they got access to cyclones, viking, queens and spore crawlers. And what’s so bad with Disruptors in prisms when there’s dumb stuff like widow mine drops. Widow mines need a nerf of their own, Rearming widow mines should cost 50 minerals because rearming carriers cost minerals.
That’s way too complex of a change list. Wanna fix Protoss without causing grief everywhere else?
Add back +8 damage to charge except halve it to +4 damage.
That fixes Roach allins without completely invalidating Terran bio (get some Hellbats and lol and the zealots evaporate, Hellbats have always been the answer to early-mid game chargelot rushes before the bio ball is too big to care).
Allow Adepts to attack air.
Their range sucks anyhow and they’re anti-light so they fill a totally different niche vs air than Stalkers do plus they need more of a real unit role instead of the “I’m going to make 1-10 of these all game to harass” thing they have going on.
Revert the dumb Observer nerf.
Only time it’s a problem is when Terran screw up. That’s good. Terran players gotta learn to scan properly. It’s a L2P issue.
Protoss don’t need a lot to be in a decent spot. Their early game is kinda bad which needs solving…other than that they’re in a good spot imo.
Yeah I gave it some more thought and I think bare minimum, they should do:
Make immortal and adept shoots air because stalkers are too weak versus broodlords/liberator and tempests aren’t always the best option against BCs, Libs and Broodlords. Make immortal cost 200/100 because its overpriced vs its utility right now.
Make all Gateway and Warpgate unit cost 1 supply instead of 2. There’s a scalability issue with Protoss army that leads to deathballs style fighting throughout a game.
Remove Concussion shells from marauders and remove DPS increase from stim for marauders.
Brood Lords in particular cannot be reasonably countered by ground units with less range. The broodling waves will prevent most ground units from getting close enough to attack. Even Thors lose the ability to deal with Brood Lords above a certain count, or when the Brood Lords are properly supported by casters (Neural Parasites and Blinding Clouds can effectively render them useless).
Tempests are pretty much the only consistent counter Protoss has to Brood Lords, because they are the only unit with the range to attack without getting zoned out by the Broodlings or by Infestors (Fungal/Neural).
There is no way that you could ever buff Immortals or Adepts enough against air to counter Brood Lords without making them broken against every other air unit.
Rebalancing all Gateway units as one supply units would be quite a challenge. All of their stats would have to be significantly altered. Protoss might also experience production issues because of the cost of Gateways and Warpgates.
Both Marines and Marauders are balanced based on the DPS boost from Stimpacks, if you were to remove Stimpacks from either unit, you would have to significantly buff that unit’s baseline stats to compensate and keep things balanced.
Like most of your other suggestions, this does not actually fix any problems.
No, I believe a lot of the issues would be quickly solved.
There isn’t enough proper AA for protoss in ground units. Libs are like the tanks in the sky and they do short work of stalkers with +2. Protoss needs a meaty unit like the immortal to come in and weather hits long enough to kill Libs. Same case for Broodlords and Battlecruisers. Protoss don’t have an answer to Battlecruisers like Zerg with fungal growth and Terran with lockdown. Tempests don’t do well unless in very large numbers and then protoss has a significant portion of army in a very slow moving, poor DPS unit like the Tempest that only has bonus vs massive and buildings. AA Immortals would do a better job at protecting colossi than Stalkers, Voidrays and phoenixes which is adding more single purpose units that takes up supply.
Having to build less pylons at a time in the early game to keep up production means more resource for production and tech. In the Mid and Late game, Protoss will be able to field and seperate units better into two seperate armies like Terran and Zerg can.
Concussion and Stims’ DPS increase is too overpowered to be available to an early game unit like Marauders when they already scale well against armored units like Stalkers.
Unless the Liberator count is very high, you can often use Blink or micro to bypass the Liberation zones.
You also have other options such as Tempests and Void Rays that can outperform Liberators in air battles.
There is no chance that a ground unit with less than 10 anti-air range can serve as an effective counter to Brood Lords. It simply won’t be able to get close enough to groups above a certain size. You could buff the unit until it is completely overpowered, and it still won’t make a difference because it just cannot get into range.
The issue with Battlecruisers is mainly that Protoss doesn’t have an aerial counter below 3 supply like Terran and Zerg do.
Yamato Cannons will make quick work of high-supply counters as long as the Battlecruisers can close in to finish off any weakened units that survive, so 3+ supply units typically can’t work as a counter and remain balanced. Tempests only work against Battlecruisers for as long as they can kite. Otherwise, a Yamato + TJ combo will kill them.
Two-supply counters like Vikings and Corruptors remain effective against Battlecruisers because the remaining 2:1 ratio of units after Yamato Cannons will usually still outperform them in combat.
You won’t save anything on pylons. 1-supply units have to be balanced with the proper stats and costs for 1-supply units.
If you want an army with equivalent strength, then you will need to build the same number of Pylons to support that army.
Furthermore, producing 1-supply units from Gateway will likely cut the Gateways’ effective production capacity compared to the current 2-supply units, so you may actually have to spend more on infrastructure overall to reach the same strength.
Ok, so you can split your army better, but warp-ins will generally be much weaker and your production will likely be slower. There are trade-offs, which might not work out in your favor.
That is completely false.
Stimpacks are sufficiently delayed by upgrades and their self-inflicted damage creates a need for Medivacs in order to avoid killing ones’ own units through attrition. Marines and Marauders are both explicitly balanced around the DPS that they get from Stimpacks.
It 7+ stalker to oneshot Libs. Libs can be produced from Reactored Starports 2 at a time and Tempest are available after a Fleet beacon, 1 at time and they only have bonus against massive units like Ultras, BroodLords, Motherships, Carrier, Archons, Battlecruisers and Thors. Stalkers and Tempests aren’t an answer to Armored Flying units likes Battlecruisers, Corruptors, Libs and Vikings, they are a Band-aid to a bad composition.
Stalkers can’t even protect Colossi effectively against Vikings and Corruptors, Do poorly against Battlecruisers before they jump out inevitably alive.
From all the videos that Blizzard post on Yt, they say you bring out Immortals to breech entrenched Siege tank positions but Siege tanks only cost 150/125/3 whereas Immortals cost 275/100/4 and you’re saying they can’t shoot up because of balance reasons, why ? Corruptors and Vikings are cheaper than Immortals and massed faster, Battlecruiser, Thors and BroodLords(also faster now) are tankier. I don’t see why Immortals being able to shoot up would be broken as hell, please explain.
I’m bring this conversation to the other thread (Required Terran Nerfs), no need to reply here (Protoss need a Buff)