Protoss is difficult

Protoss is a difficult race. It’s very easy to make a mistake or two and flat out die; however, this statement is only true for ground based Protoss styles.

Protoss has a couple of styles that many players abuse that should flat out not be in the game. Cannon rushes, shield battery rushes, and rushing to skytoss builds give many protoss players a bad image because they are frankly easier to execute than standard protoss. These styles should be easy to shut down if the opponent is playing well, but they are not.

Protoss ground should be the main focus of balance. Protoss players who play fast and have good micro should be rewarded more than players who only know how to mass voidrays or cannon rush.


If you cant win with proxy voidray shield battery rushes then you shouldnt play SC2. Its literally 50/50 in the worst case scenaro depending on a couple things that are always in protoss favor. If Terran does any opening besides 2rax factory, or 2 factory they have no chance of winning. Every protoss i played in TvP today did some kind of trash proxy which i scouted immediately and could not be stopped despite opening double fact and building cyclones and widow mines.

Protoss is beyond broken and if you cant win then you’re beyond bad.

prOtoSS iS a diFfIcULT Race

The question is whether Protoss is as difficult as other races. APM is a very good indicator of skill since there is a strong correlation between APM and league.

Protoss players are twice as numurous in GM as Zerg, despite Zergs having 25% more APM on average. In fact, Protoss in GM have an average APM comparable to Zergs from Master league.

It gets worse: Protoss are not only more numerous in GM, but also have the highest win-rates in GM, Masters and Diamond etc, and have the highest win-rates across the whole ladder. LOL!

Is Protoss a difficult race? No, it absolutely is not.


P is not intended to be “fast”. The whole idea for P is to be beefy and have high burst damage. The trade off is the speed. If speed is preferred, then it would be better to play another race (e.g. Z).

The issue with mass VRs and cannon rush being so popular is because players at the lower tiers have no idea how to handle them.

This is coupled with the fact that many newer players have no idea how to judge a battle in a glance to understand whether there is a chance of winning (or there is a need to pull back; this applies to cannon rush where they continue to attack while losing workers or not even pull workers where necessary).


But then players spend their time in forums complaining rather than practising. What we end up with is ‘skilled keyboard warriors’ that either:

  1. Are ignorant of the facts (but live in denial); or
  2. Have multiple accounts just to build their ego (by supporting their own posts; which I have no idea to what purpose).

Topic #5; you’re welcome. :slight_smile:


:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :joy: :joy: :joy: :joy: :joy:

looking at zealots and stalkers and voids and tempest and Dts. sure toss is slow…

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All the races are difficult to play. I am going to say from personal experience that Protoss is the least difficult overall, but by how much is debatable. Cannon rush should definitely not be a part of this game, but shield battery contains are definitely defendable. You can also contain a skytoss rush on 3 bases (the problem becomes when they move out at max supply and decent upgrades, but you can get ahead macro wise and hold). The thing is, turtling will always be easier than playing aggressively. That’s just how this game is. What makes a player stronger is being able to break the turtle shell.

Have you tried transitioning to vikings and using your range advantage…? Have you looked up proper defenses against proxies? 2rax isn’t that good. 2 factory is kind of sketchy too.

You are such a clown. Zerg APM literally spikes through the roof when you hold down a button and produce something like mass zerglings. Get out of here with your nonsense. APM between races is not comparable by any means in terms of skill. It’s not even comparable between leagues. I’ve seen plat players with 200+ APM and they are horrid at this game. On the other hand, I have 150-220 APM and I perform significantly better than they ever will. APM means little. Stop using APM as leverage to trash on Protoss.

It’s not like Terran has hellions or stimmed bio or banshees. Also LOL imagine using tempests as a fast example for Protoss. This is why no one takes you TCF clowns seriously


Claiming a race is easy while onetricking makes no sense as you are not playing all the things the race has. And then,if the race is so easy, why the race has not won a lot of big tournaments?, or the race is easy only at scrub levels?.


The simple thought that protoss units are slow is a lie. I can never seem to catch that proxie tempest or able to kill it.
or those -Zs or those stalkers… but they are so slow

“Zerg has to build more units than protoss - that apm SHOULD NOT COUNT!”

Unit construction is a rapid-fire ability like casting feedback or spamming warpins. Let me guess, casting feedbacks should count towards your apm, but building units shouldn’t? How convenient!

The fact that Protoss gets less of an APM boost because they make fewer units is exactly the kind of ease of use that makes protoss easy. You have to spend less time / apm on production. It’s that simple. Furthermore Protoss APM is lower than Terran’s apm as well. What’s the excuse for that? Terran can spam zerglings! Time to just admit protoss is designed to be the more casual race.

Alphastar had a fixed APM budget and with a fixed APM budget its Protoss was 600 mmr stronger than its Zerg. Protoss simply requires less APM, and since APM is a good indicator of skill it just requires less skill. That’s why there are TWICE as many Protoss GMs than Zergs. It requires less skill to make GM, and so more people qualify.


Bruh apm as indicator of skill was wrong


This clown does even not know that casting FB (espetially now that it does not kill a thing) with Rapidfire is a big NO NO.
Let’s assume that you have 4 HT with 200 energy. You rapidfire FB on a couple of Vipers. Result: one Viper with half HP all HT energy (16 FB) wasted.


Even if rapid fire is used with feedback…does it increase the APM, you hold the spell, but it only cast on units with energy, so it spams apm during the time or just at the release time?, I should check that because I’m not sure.

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Depending on the repeat-rate of the Keybord (some use insane numbers) the FB would be applied 16 times (for 4 HT full energy) on a single unit and that’s it. That is due to the 0 lattency of FB and the immediate energy generation on units (even 0.00000000001 energy attract a full 50 energy FB).
It was masked before because the FB’ed unit died and FB had no reason to apply second hit on a dead unit and passed on the next unit.
But the Flatearther is so full of it that makes below-bronze arguments.


Seeing a high number for a couple seconds means nothing. Making 20 zerglings is still 10 actions, it doesn’t matter if it shows 1000 apm in that tiny amount of time.


Rapid fire, change repeat keyboard settings, hold down button suddenly gm skill according to you.

TIL my diamond/master zerg is as good as some of the best zergs in the world because of apm.

Apm is useless, it most of the time says nothing about player performance and comparing any stats like apm, epm or screen jumps between races will always be pointless.


Nobody said high apm makes you a better player, it’s just a measurement of how much is required to do. There’s a reason mech/skytoss players consistently have the lowest apm in the game.

I agree with that 100%.

I never liked APM. I was wondering why it was introduced in the first place. It has literally NOTHING to do with players’ skill. It only shows how quickly one can mash a keyboard. Bronze players may have 200 APM by spamming and master player can have 75-100 APM if all his attention goes in the right place. People are so obsessed with this one indicator that they forget to… play the game literally. :slight_smile:


To know if you suffer Parkinson’s or cerebral palsy.

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I’m not going to talk to someone who thinks tempests are fast

I’m not going to talk to someone who actually thinks they can make a legitimate argument out of APM when everyone below 5k MMR spams so much (i.e. pointless actions) that it actually slows them down. If you don’t know, doing stupid things like spamming 1-3 (control groups) is one of the huge reasons why some players have such boosted APM. Terrans do this ALL the time. Protoss doesn’t have as many structures worth spamming back and forth with to boost their APM. This is probably one of the biggest reasons why APM =/= skill. People literally slap their keyboards around to get their APM up the first 2 minutes of the game. Sorry Protoss players don’t have to do that as much. Maybe the other races should stop being angry at their keyboards.

Trying to convince these clowns of anything is impossible. You can bring up all the facts against them, and they will convince themselves they are right by crying harder… Someone in the replies will prove them wrong and then a week later it’s like their memories have been wiped like people in the Men in Black… Whining goes straight back to square one and not a single productive conversation was held that week

Put it this way. Let’s say each race has 500 minerals. That’s 10 marines (10 actions), 5 zealots (5 actions), and 20 zerglings (10 actions). Are you really going to make one of your major arguments about APM = skill over simple unit production like this? In a game realistically, Protoss blindly warps in mass zealot, Zerg randomly spams mass Zergling, Terran randomly queues up a bunch of marines (and floats a ton of gas). It’s all the same. Do you really think Protoss = EZ race because of this?

Trust me when I say anyone below 5k MMR (especially Terrans) is just spamming control groups to boost their APM by a HUGE amount. Protoss just happens to be the race where it’s least necessary to “warm up” (I quote this because warming up to the extent many Terrans do is ridiculous). Mech/skytoss have the least APM because turtling is stupid easy to do. But these are strategies and not necessarily overall reasons on why one race would be easier than the other.

I say this all the time and people just don’t get it. I guarantee you anyone with over 250 APM below 5k MMR is moving their index and middle finger back and forth like they’re playing 2 notes on a keyboard.

Exactly this


It’s the opposite, when masters/gm level players come to complain about something specific, gold leaguers like you put on this holier than thou act trying to educate them on the basics of rts. You think you’re offering insight, but anybody masters+ sees you’re a low level player that’s full of it and doesn’t even comprehend the topic being discussed. It really shows.

Masters/gm is a lower tier now? When’s the last time you played vs a gm? jc