Proposed Balance Changes

General Discussion
1

Balance should be addressed for Under Powered Zerg

  1. Battle Cruisers are imbalanced vs Zerg
  2. Widow Mines also OP vs Zerg

So to fix the problems.
For BattleCruiser problem I have 2 approaches so far
A. Prevent warp for a few seconds with a expensive spell. (parasitic bomb).
B. Delay BCs warp ability via research or increasing cooldown & spawning without it ready.

So idea A.
is finding a way to prevent some BC from warping away (which is creating massive imbalance). The fact they are so powerful and simply get away without losing them is a huge oversight and imbalance.
So here it is.
Parasitic Bomb “primary target” is prevented from using warp until PB ends. NOTE: This does NOT stop all BC in the cloud from warping away it simply is preventing the PRIMARY TARGET OF THE SPELL. This would allow zerg to pick off some before they all do what they do that has broken the balance in this game. Which is warping home and negating ANY COUNTER PLAY BY ZERG all AFTER doing damage to zergs economoy and sniping queens and hatches with yamato cannons.

Idea B.
Delaying when Battlecruisers get warp.
May be make it a research so terran has to research it first…
or at the very least.
Do not need to spawn with a warp “ready”… honestly no reason for it. The problem is this is over powered and an issue. They could increase the cooldown time and also make it so BC does not spawn with Warp ready.
So this simple change would actually be a nice “first” step to try out. If it does not work then we could try something else. But its a first step at least.

now onto

Problem 2. Widow Mine:
This unit is so blatantly over powered all game long well you need to start somewhere.

Should it cost just 75/25 ? Absolutely not. For its current statistics it should cost at least 75 gas. In my opinion the cost should be about close to 100/75.

Should it be able to target BOTH AIR AND GROUND? May be try just ground units.

Should it be able to deal such massive SPLASH damage? Ma y be try lowering the splash damage to like 35. (still 1 shots lings and banes) but would lower the damage to units with more health like roaches, hydras, mutas. IN FACT 3 widow mines can 1 shot the entire swarm of mutas… each muta remember cost 100/100.

Should it be able to deal such massive DIRECT damage? Why is the direct damage so powerful in the first place? The unit already has a purpose of dealing massive damage to tons of units to the swarm… 1 shotting tons of units of lings banes etc.
I honestly see no justification for this amount of massive direct damage on this unit.
(it 1 shots a muta)… Widow Mine cost 75/25 vs the 100/100 muta…

What I notice is that the Widow Mine turns the TvZ match up BACKWARDS. It gives map control to terran where it needs to be in zergs hands. Remember if zerg DOES NOT HAVE MAP CONTROL… THEN THE GAME IS NOT BALANCED. Zerg needs to be bases ahead and they have to FREELY BE ABLE TO MOVE THEIR MANY UNITS ACROSS THE MAP AND ALL OVER THE MAP TO DEFEND ALL THEIR BASES.

WIDOW MINE IS THE WORST UNIT ADDED TO STARCRAFT 2.

It really is.

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2

the whole battle cruiser warp thing is kinda dumb, it takes just as long for the cooldown idea as it would for them to cross the map so there still gonna be able to warp back as soon as they do there damage to you anyways. Best way to counter is just scout. If you see the terran on one base chances are its gonna be a bc rush or proxy. so look for proxy and start building spores.

as for widows. yeah i agree there overpowered toward zerg, and as for zerg early game they really are a pain to deal with, nothing zerg has really tanks it well especially if theres more than one mine. roachs can take a hit but when you get a clump of mines they kinda melt. same with the oversear, more than two there dead. ultras are pretty much the only thing that can take a few shots and survive but there late game. You can only out range them with broodlord and lurkers, maybe ravagers, not too sure, i dont use them a whole lot. If any change for the widow mine were too occur i would like too see the spash damage decreased a little as well as the splash radius. They dont need a giant drop but a little bit would be nice to see. As for cost, it really dont matter terran will still pump them out either way.

3

Scouting has nothing to do with the OP Battlecruisers. The fact that zerg has no good response except for corruptors IS THE IMBALANCED PART.

Battlecruiers can decimate EVERYTHING zerg makes. That is simply not a good strategy game.

I should be able to repond with spores… but they do nothing even vs 0/0/0 BC…

I would like the game to be more sci-fi “realistic” so I do not think hydras should be a good counter to BC or should queens.

But spores… they should be good. And it would be smart because zerg is killing their economy if they are making spores to defend vs BC.

I added my parasitic bomb idea to the OP here. I forgot about that one.

But if they added a “direct damage” buff .
This damage increase would ONLY be for the primary target so it would NOT be the splash damage. But if they increased the primary target damage then they would be better vs BC as well.

This 2nd idea with parasitic bomb might be the BETTER IDEA.

If parasitic bomb stopped warp for its "primary target’ only.
Again I repeat this would not be for all units in the cloud it would only be for the primary target of the spell. This would at least allow zerg to “catch” a few BC before they EZ MODE warp back home preventing you from killing them.

4

nah dude your idea is terrible, all of them. and wishing the game was more scifi realistic is just outright nonsence, first off scifi is not realistic what so ever so yeah theres that, and this game is litterally scifi. Frankly what your asking for is just dumb. Yes bcs are overpowered but there aint gonna be any changes ever probably going forward, at least to them as the pros who are now running the show think there just fine. There already on the highest tier terran build order so its not like they get them that quick unless they go one base all in on a bc rush, which really is a giant risk for them. scouting it early will destroy this and save you alot less hassle than coming here to the forums and complaining. Sacrifice a dame overlord and scout. again being on one base is usually a dead give away. And listen before you even say im just being terran biased, ill tell you right now i dont play terran ever except in coop and even then it was just to lvl15 raynor. Im a straight up zerg player so dont try that nonsence.

5

Nah dude your just not smart enough to grasp a good ideas.

6

says the guy who wants a scifi game to be more realistic

7

“You’re”

Every heard of an “Infestor?”

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8

Did you know infestor is a ground unit and should not be a unit required to deal with the BC?

Take fungal growth and put it on viper then we got something.

Or like my post SAYS
GIVE PARASATIC BOMB THE ABILITY TO PREVENT WARP.

and in addition

I do not want NP or ABDUCT to be used on massive units.

Its ridiculously unrealistic and stupid.

10

You ever hear of a “mutalisk?” You know that Thors and Mines and Marines are GROUND UNITS?

And I love how you keep parroting that Terran is so EZ and then ignoring the direct proOofI shoved in your face. It seriously is one of my favorite things to watch idiots on these forums squirm.

11

Mutas vs BC’s (LOL). BC’s wreck Mutalisks.

12

The point was simply that other factions sometimes depend on ground units to deal with air units, so the claim that you should be able to handle all air with air units doesn’t hold much water. Battlecruisers may beat Mutalisks in a fight, but they also are also too slow to catch up, too large to split up, and otherwise get in position to prevent the Mutalisks from harassing.

All of that said, Corruptors can defeat Battlecruisers. They just need equal or greater supply without a significant upgrade disadvantage; whereas Infestors can just take-over Battlecruisers with Neural Parasite, giving Zerg a huge advantage at lower supply.

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13

But you want to make the widow mine from balanced for Plat/low diam who lose with A moving into a mine to balanced for them when too expensive yet for anyone whose game isnt decided by a mine shot, like some Z that knows to dodge, the mine would be completely useless to build as terran

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14

Notice you responded to an argument no one was even making?

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15

Zerg 100% should have an ability on Viper or corruptors to disable warp.

Warp itself has created an immense imbalance and removed strategy from the game.

It needs to be addressed in some way to balance the game.

16

How about also making stasis wards affect air units for protoss to deal with mass battlecruisers and battlecruiser rushes ? If we’re giving zerg teeth against battlecruisers then protoss needs some as well. Or, even better let immortals shoot up, have 8 range, move as fast as stalkers and cost 200/100. Best way to deal with battlecruisers since tempest are trash at it.

17

With zerg being the hardest race to play in the game already we should not have such a massive imbalance that completely REVERSES the way the match is supposed to be played.

Widow Mines and BC both turn the match up on its head which if anyone on any games balance team was smart enough to understand they would know that is a clear sign of imbalance issue.

The fact that zerg can see BC coming and will lose to them because the ONLY option they have to deal with them is corruptors… and if a terran is smart they can kill your eco and queens, and warp back home without losing BC to corruptors. They can also kill CORRUPTORS toe to toe … and being repaired by mules/scvs or simply WARPing home to get repaired before they die.

Queens and spores are not a counter to BC making spores also kills your eco.

Imo spores should be a lot better vs BC.

It be nice to nerf or remove Nueral parasite from the game and also abduct.
BOTH of these zerg abilities make the game terrible and unfun.
IN RETURN FOR THESE NERFS OR CHANGES you give zerg parasitic bomb negates warp and bring back 4 larva per queen inject it was a bad move to reduce it to 3 larva.

I do not want to have to use abduct on unrealistic things like carriers and BC this is bad design. The dude who came up with abduct pulling on carriers, mothership, BC, temperst… thors… this dude should have be forced to leave the company that was the most unrealistic and stupid addition to an rts game I have ever seen.

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18

I agree but total larvae per hatch should be reduced to 10.

19

Literally no reason to nerf max larva… see when talking about things there should be a justified reason for it. That would be @55 backwards from the design perspective of the race. Being swarmy and having to remax.

20

Okay fine, 19 is a weird as number to draw the line on the sand. How bout 16 per hatch? So its easier to remember that its 4 injects times 4 larvae per inject. Or how about 18 per hatch? So its 6 injects times 3 larvae per inject. :thinking:

21

Researching Tac Jump I think is an okay idea for nerfing BCs. I don’t think that BCs need any other changes. Specifically because the problem for Zerg has never been dealing with lategame BCs, it’s always been about dealing with them early - though even now queens deal with one or two quite handily considering the investment that a Terran player puts into making them.

Importantly, Zerg really doesn’t struggle with BC plays at all these days. There is a reason we never see them from Terran players anymore in pro play and that’s because they’re generally just bad. The last one I saw was done by either cure or Gumiho recently (I think in the masters 6?) and it failed to do enough damage pretty spectacularly.

A s far as “stopping” them from jumping away, your other ideas serve no real purpose. Parabomb has its uses, but it’s used primarily for soft CC on squishy units, forcing them to spread and micro against the splash damage. Abduct would be better to “prevent” them from warping away if done at the right time… but all of that is outdone completely by the fact that you have investors with neural parasite which serve the same purpose, if not doing so better than the above suggestions.

So, firstly, it takes 4 mines to 1shot a pack of clumped murals, not 3 - assuming that you don’t kill the 4th mine - since Zerg’s natural regeneration will actually regenerate them through the 3rd hit.

Secondly, mines are fairly cheap, but also cost a pretty significant amount of supply considering that, once fired, they’re “dead” supply for the better part of about 30 seconds, while also being exposed after firing (assuming no armoury).

Thirdly, mines are a problem primarily because they’re not fun to face, not because they’re overpowered - they’re really not OP at any level that actually matters. We have seen the results of nerfed mines before back in HotS, (though granted there is quite the difference between the game then and now) and the results were awful, since the entire Terran representation in every premier tournament disappeared overnight, no matter what Terran players did. It resulted in the single worst period of imbalance that we have ever seen in the history of the game before or since, since even at the most base levels of premier tournaments, Terran players had a whopping 2-4 players in the Ro32 depending on the tournament.

I’m not opposed to nerfing mines; they’re not fun to face for Zerg or toss at the best of times, but doing so needs to be done carefully or we will end up going back to Zerg players being able to quite literally A-move through armies without a care in the world.

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