ok, instead of “retry” how about “restart”? in terms of a mission, same thing. and restarting your levels to 1.
nope(well, the level dose, but not the co as a whole). when you prestige, your co playstyle changes, so you have to essentially “relearn” how to play that one to its utmost. (i.e. karax p1top2. you go from having stronger static d, to have no static d, and changing to a high unit presence). now, some of the simple changes might not need a full 15 levels to relearn, true, but there is a relearning bit.
the amount of reward feeling will vary from person to person, as “feeling” is subjective. i hate grinding in all most every form, which is why there are achievements im willing to grind out, and those im not.
usually relived i made it, surge of adrenaline as i get something with less then a 5% chance drop rate( or lower lol). normally i don’t grind alone, so there’s also the journey itself that leaves me with some stratified feeling; like i get when i see my p2 cos.
complaint: a statement that a situation is unsatisfactory or unacceptable.
feedback: information about reactions to a product, a person’s performance of a task, etc. which is used as a basis for improvement.
simple complaining about something doesn’t provide feedback; i.e. this food sucks. the feed back from that example might be: this food is way over salted.
one states a negative opinion about something with no attempt to find a solution, the other offers something about it that can be used to help the situation, aka constructive criticism.
tho it is a form of expressing dissatisfaction, as you say, but feed back is actually more of a processes then that.
edit: i see the confusion here. complaints provide a form of feedback about something, but are not feedback themselves…i need to find the term im looking for here to express myself better.
This food sucks still provides feedback… feedback that something should be changed (at least if a lot of people are giving that feedback)… it isn’t very valuable since it doesn’t say what needs to be changed, but it is still feedback with some value.
(and if you are dealing with customers, what they like or don’t like is the valuable feedback… second only what they do or don’t actually buy…which is your goal)
You get different feedback from a customer than say an instructor (where the instructor should know more than you about the process, the customer only really knows about their reaction to the end product)
Really? This is what you want to get into? What is considered Feedback?
Feedback is aimed to improve and not just vent. You’ve read as much as I have on here, can you honestly say that most of them are “feedback” lmao. Even this Rozen dude here, he’s not providing anything solid to improve. He’s continuously trying to prove his take on coop and prestige is “correct”. And he thinks by doing so makes his complaint valid and therefore devs will improve it.
ok, im going straight to the source here: Merriam-Webster. the requirement for feed back is that is has a helpful, informative correctional component. otherwise its just a complaint about something.
Definition of complaint
1 : expression of grief, pain, or dissatisfaction
no helpful component-this food sucks.
Definition of feedback
1a : the transmission of evaluative or corrective information about an action, event, or process to the original or controlling source
helpful, informative correctional component, too much salt, use less.
Thats sound interesting, but at the same time i think that may cause some of confussion. How about using first some context for reffering each word/term?
More or less, thats because when i say is return to the starting point is becasue the prestiges can be active or not when the releveling is made, thast a variable that maybe we need to have in consideration, mainly because as many others have expresed, some commanders are mor comfortable releveling without the prestige be active than having obligated to be active.
Thats why i say in a few ocations that the releveling has no sense at all, the new thing/changes can be more efficient at level 15 instead of force the players to do the same procces 3 times per commander.
BTW, i think the correct word/term here it will be adapt-adaptability, more than re-learn, i don know what you think about this.
Well lest say that in this point the question radicates more in general scale than personal.
And in your example of the achievement, im like you in that way, i already have those who im not goin to reach, but i think that the point in those, are that the achievements, well… lets say that canno be considerated grinding, or at least in his form of obtention, the achievement can be considered challenge rewards, independ of the personal feeling, mainly becasue the achievement obtention doesn never require of do repetitive actions, becasue every achieve is unique and his optention condition are too unique.
Here im apologize, but im with KrikkitOne, and in part with you, the complaining really provides true feedback only if the complaining arent simple like you said
Usign the example of KrikkitOne how a chain of food knows if their product is good or bad? How their able to know if some of their stablisments have good customer services?
The complainig have a feedback weight for be the one way that the customer can speak to the companies, and this is the better way to collect information to have better or more products.
Following with the example, lets put in this way, you have to manage an enterprice, you cannont be present in any form you only can be attatch to a desk with many other members of the enterprise, them how can make it better witout listening the people? this applies to good critiques and the complainings, how can you know if any of your employeers is making something ilegal or treating your customers bad?
The definitions are totally correct, but there is something that is missing, and no, there isnt that the definitions are bad or bad writed, the missing part is the human/people factor.
Like i said the definitions are totally correct, but can be considered raw material, because in that form can be used in good or bad way, and can be open to unlimited misunderstandings or instepretations, the lack of contexts is the thing that make turn all the definitions.
Another example, lest say you go to the only hospital that is nearly in hundred kms, but in that place the treatmend are very bad, and the service too, and that because nobody complain about it, becasue the definition at raw you share.
The how this place can improve or can be get better is anybody dont complains about the bad things? How the mangers of the place can recieve feedback if they doesn have any complain?
When something doesnt have this kind of feedback then the things stay same, and same not necesarily means good.
Another example that has no much time.
Do you know the chase of starwars battlefront 2?
restart: to start over. either the mission you want the speed record on, or your leveling 1-15 on a new prestige.
true. so while the co isnt at the same point, the same effective point could be the same. i see what you are saying there.
its basically like replaying the game with a different ability list; many games make use of it (disgea comes to mind, where your characters go back to level one but with some of the ability’s they had, and then the ones from the new class), a lot of new game + modes do it too. so just think of each prestige as another level of new game+ i guess.
yes, adaptability works as well. the more adaptable you are, the easier it is to learn the changes introduced by the new prestige(the “relearn” part has to do with the the fact that if you learn how to do a task, then they change the equipment you have, you have to “re”-learn how to do the task as a whole, even tho you are only “learning” the new or changed part(s))
ah, but do you see what you said there? “complaining aren’t simple”.
yes, enough complaints show negative feed back about something, but complaining itself isn’t feedback, as “feedback” is a process of providing helpful information. its that people factor you mention. complaining has no attempt to make anything better, that’s what defines it; venting (not talked about, but bear with me here) is the processes complaining, but with the purpose of: providing an outlet for emotions. feedback is to help improve something.
so, something might go like this:
this sucks! (enter dislike here)
(2nd person) you all right?
(the first person moves from complaining to venting, by expressing their emotions and frustrations, and recognizing them as such, then after they have expressed themselves feel better)
(2nd person)so what do you think could be done to make the situation better?
(1stperson): starts to provide constructive criticism\feedback to\about the situation looking for a way to fix it(or improve, or just make it suck a bit less), rather then merely gripping about it, making no change
"Definitions are wrong, you are not seeing it ‘at raw’ ". Holy mother lmao.
Yeah, those complaints definitely helped change the hospital’s service or saved any dying patients there. Nice example. Sad is sad does, as I said lol.
Well lets say not attach to the definition at raw, i mean the context when are used, example:
Retry, this can be use for a part/entired section, only a part of the level or the full level/content. the definition doesnt chage at all, but his treatment can variate a little depending of what context is made (and i know this is a bad example, but nothing more come to mi mind now.)
Thanks, this is the why many have complainings and some adversitiy to the actual menchanic, because when you really think in deep, the grinding and the releling is more a waste of time than somenthing that apports.
well in that way ist true, but istill feel very, very, very… i say very? because i think i say very XD, ok is feel very akward.
In the example the only i have in now is the trials of mana remake, recent released, that game has the same mechaninc of leave the player many things that previously gather in the previuos playtrought even the levels of the selected party at the start of the new game +.
And thats the point of break, the game offer the option of start a NG+ with the characters you dont have play in the last playtrought, or play the ones you already do, or even better a combination, but with all the items gather in the previous.
Then having this in mind how do you feel if the NG+ restinge all the things you already gather and the game itself say that you cant use in the new game, but you wil be able only when you reach the max level? or in short, when you finish again the game.
Well in this part KrikkitOne and me, are in the correct acordind to the things you are/have providing, becasue we are providing context to the complainings, thats why the complaning, no matter if is the first one or the last one, must have followed by contexts, the why, the situation, the debate and the way to find solutions, this is something that KrikkitOne and me already did. If you don believeme, i attach here a link to a couple of my proposals/suggestion.
Btw, this is something that only people who really read can notice at the first sign, but the dumbs that only critique and say only nonsense based on taking out of context and their lazines to read cant notice ever in his lifes. Ahhh the fanboys can enten in this category too XD
right, the term doesn’t change. if you are attempting again, it doesn’t matter how much is involved, it is still retrying.
not sure what you meant to say there. if it was that you lose all the stuff you got, then that wouldn’t be ng+, that would just be starting the game anew.
let me highlight that:
that is not a complaining. and in fact, that is the entirety of that particular argument; that (trying to)“find solutions” are what differentiate complaining vs feedback.
and, sry, but no. any English major or therapist will say the same thing.
allright, im out. need a shower, and doubt i will be back on. night.
This is why when if we reffer to a term, the context is vital, you never will undesrtand if im trying to say im restart some part of a level or the entire level without that.
Ok let me try to make more clear if i can.
when i said restrain, i mean you start a NG+ with all the gear and items you colect, but cannot use any single one, even if those are the gears of the same party in the last playtrought.
Well, lest say that this is the feeling that many have and complain when the knew that if they want to enjoy the full experience, must put aside all the upgrades=levels=masteries, they have reached until reach again to the max level 3 times per commander. Dont you think that this, no matter if you agree or dissagree with the mechanic, it feels akward and very anoying, and there is another litle, tiny bit plus, and is the fact that all the commanders, exept Raynor, Kerrigan and Artanis, cost money, and unless you live in U.S.A. the prices variates fron what considered cheap, to a little expensive. Having this too in mind what do you think, those who whant to feel their purchase doesn has a waste of money or want value their purchases, when the content that already has them paid is blocked with somehting that could be better implemented?
Night, this was very interesting and educational. if you back that will be nice.
context for that term isnt vital. not sure it it means what you think it means.
if you restart, it dosnt matter how much are doing over, as to “restart” means to start anew or to resume (something, such as an activity) after interruption.
context would be more for if someone asked you the spelling for one of the following: “dessert” vs “desert”. ( /dəˈzərt/ vs /dəˈzərt/. pronouced the same way, but diffrent spellings and meanings)
what makes it unclear is that "restinge " isnt a word in the english language. the 2nd time you say “restrain”(typo on the first one maybe?)., which is a little clearer, thanks. although, im not sure how you mean restrain; like a level requirement to equip an item?(had the first go round too), cause the same rules like that would apply on most ng+. and if you dont get to keep your stuff, its just new game.
no i dont. sure, i dont care for the transition from 15 to 1, but once i get used to not haveing all level ups, it comes down to i want the higher prestige, and thats what it takes.
not sure how regional pricing is set by them, so cant address price differences between cos.
but i think it depends on what version you get for how many come with the game. i think theres a base free version, so i would guess thats what your talking about re. only 3 cos free. i bought all 3 games as a pack, so i started with quite a few more than that. (the subject of dlc is another topic entirely, and outside the scope of this one, so i wont state my ideas on it).
but, it isnt. when you buy a game, you dont instantly get access to everything you can do in it. you play it till you get to that part (or use a cheat code to level skip).
i bought the game. i play the game. i unlock things as i play the game. if its too much trouble, i dont unlock it. im not blocked by something. they arent asking me for more money for what i already paid for (xtra cos are dlc, not base content)
thanks. this will be the extant that i am back tho, as this has just been a diversion for me from things going on, and in the morning i gota get back to them, so thanks for that;
over and out.
Well, lets say this time my limitations are agains me, when i refer to context, i mean to be more explainable, and try to leave no dobuts in the best possible way.
I think that for sure, i write that wrong because i think that, thats the correct form, thats something new for me, and yo have again my thanks for correct me.
with restrain i mean, that you have blocked something that you could use independet of the level or requirements, in this case usig the example of trials of mana, in the NG+ you can start with all the items and gear you have gather in the previus playtrought, this items and gears doesnt have level restrictions, and besides even if that restriction was there, the character inherit their levels too. Now how do you feel that the NG+ the mechanic that was made it for see the other stories of the other character you could play in that moment, block all the inherit prevously, until finish the game? I mean all the healing/support items, and the gears of the characters you have in the invventory sitll there but cannot used until finish the game or reach the max level. The gear can be understandable, for the characters you chose now but dont previously, but what if you choose one of the previous? Obvious this is an example, the NG+ of trials of mana was made it for see the main story of the 6 characters, but the companions make the variation, thats why start a new game from zero, is not a good option if you want to see at least the main 6. Not even seay the hole lot of variable interactions.
Now returning to sc2 is teh same in escense, but withouth the option of starting from zero. the releveling is like a resticted NG+
Well, then, lest put in this way:
not all have that capacity, mainly becasue the reset doesn apport something that can or could be relevant, i say this based in the fact that when the commader is fully levelup again, independient if only is 1 or the 3 prestiges, for many could signifcate nothing the lose off the upgrades, more than having like is more a waste of time than a progression.
I hope i can make me understandable.
Thats right, but there is a thing here that, you are missing, in this particular chase, the content that you are buying, you cant skip the procces of unlock, using cheats is totaly forbidden, unles you want a expensive paperweight, or in his digital version, 30gbs of total space wasted.
The only way is playing, and i like others, dont have complainings about that, is the method, the for of play for the unlock that change the question. Lest put in this way:
I buy the game, no matter what, like many others only i can have certain amount of time, idependient if is more or less in each session, with effort, make to level up the commander(s) of choice, was fun, discover the pros and cons, have the masteries, thats all good, and then after a long period, here come new experience or something that can give a litle refresh to the form of play, but is restricted to the condition of passing all the things already bein finished, only to make notices that this could be implented in a better way. And now is again make a self restiction to unlock the experience, in a form that could be implemented in a better way, and could be more atractive.
There is another factor, and is the endurance, not all the players can endurance the boredom of the grinding, some people can endure more, some less, but the result is the same, boredom.
Sorry if i extend again. I think this part will be need more focus. But like you im tired for now.
Glad to read that you have been fun, this was to me fun too, and very helpfull, mainly because you are helping me a lot with my limitations of the language and getting more clear what im try to say to you and everyelse
Well, with nothing more to say for now more than thanks again, im retreat too, is time to my little night coffe and bedtime.
See you later.
An apoligize for write too much, but thats something hard to me, mainly becasue i like to try to not fall in unnecesary misunderstandings. And the fact that i have to thing in what i want to say in a diferent language, well… lest say is a mess. Sorry if that is inconveniet to you.
If you had the kindness of help me to do that, i will be glad to try. i cannot promise anything, but i will try.
The reason I write a wall of text is to not be misunderstood. Your misunderstanding of my walls of texts is of your impatients, your intolerance, and your misunderstandings. It is definitely not of mine own because that’s why I wrote a wall of text to explain and not be misunderstood. Since I did write those walls of texts, I have done my part to not be misunderstood, so it must be you who is misunderstanding. There definitely is zero possibility that my excess walls of texts may have more misunderstandings as a result of my walls of texts. To conclude, if you’d just read my walls of texts, you’d definitely understand me.
Now if you understood all that, then maybe take a hint.
Complaining is what I do when I'm actually ingame or in a discord server. Except that one time where my ally Tychus and I were waiting on trains to spawn, and he was like "haha look at us pretending that we haven't done this 10k times before,"
Feedback is the constructive part without sounding like a whiny little five year old. The first post of this thread is literally “THIS BAD MAEK IT GO AWAY”.
And to be perfectly fair, the more levelheaded people of the forum have suggested that players be able to pick the prestige they want. And that’s fine, and I’m sure it’s been suggested a million and one times in the actual Feedback subforums.
And so now we wait. And wait some more. And wait even longer. If you want to continually gripe about it on the forums, well…
One quality of life improvement would be making the mastery full leveled vanilla commander / unlocked prestiges available to play even if you are leveling a different prestige.
I realize this isn’t as easy as it sounds. I think it can be done fairly easily if you had to level with the prestige you are trying to unlock . But some prestiges are not optimal for leveling . I think it would require a bit more developmental work to have the unlocked full leveled version of commanders available to play for non prestige XP, while at the same being able to use unleveled versions for releveling . So I understand why the developers didn’t do what I suggested.
All that being said I’m against the idea of restricting content the players has already earned, and I think this would be a nice quality of life change if it can be implemented.
I think it would help with player patience if they had their level 15 commanders available to play if they so desired while they are doing prestige.
For me personally for instance, I like playing Kerrigan with masteries but my memory of leveling Kerrigan wasn’t a rosey experience (granted I’m probably a better player now). To this point I have not prestiged Kerrigan yet, because I know it be a longer endeavor, and I wouldn’t have my maxed out vanilla Kerrigan to play in the meantime.
Same with Swann. I know leveling him will be a chore but I started doing mutations recently, and having a full leveled Swann for some mutations is nice.
If I don’t mind the releveling and taking my time with the rest of my unearned prestiges but I would prefer at least the vanilla mastery commander to be available while releveling (for non prestige XP of course).
