They’re all cheeses that can win the game on the spot. What more could you want? What edge are you thinking that these specific methods have?
Your message has only me quoted in it and has no reference to another user in it. If you weren’t addressing me, you actually did this in the worst way possible.
So, succinctly: A comparison of mean averages over the whole population tells you either that the most popular thing gets played poorly a lot more than the less popular things, or that the most popular thing is so popular that people have too much experience fighting against it.
Yes, having a large sample set helps, but also having an unfiltered set can leave you with poisoned data.
Can’t remember either of these happening in reality.
I’m not sure how knowledgeable you are on game theory, in particular cheese. You are comparing stuff like banshees and proxy barracks to Zerg and Protoss cheese. It’s not my job to study the game for you, you can figure it out for yourself.
What do I have to gain from telling a random person how to ruin the game for others? If you read the post I made earlier today from the Warcraft developers, proxy buildings weren’t even intentional. It was just a rush job after they took out roads.
Banshees are mostly a timing attack and not a cheese? I apologize that the sentences weren’t clear on that.
But like… Proxy Barracks is directly comparable to proxy Gateway and most early Pools, Bunker rush to Cannon rush. Spine rushes are more different.
Well, demonstrating that your argument has legs. Because I’m trying to tell you that it doesn’t.
The notion that you have that Terran’s early attacking options are somehow completely useless is baseless and when arguments against your position have been presented you completely ignore them and then persist with the claim.
Second, your assertion that this ruins the game just isn’t true? I’m happy to agree that cheeses are bad but every single thing you’ve said about ‘fixing’ it creates so many dramatic problems it feels like you don’t think about the consequences of a change.
This argument only holds any amount of water for Warcraft 2. With SC1 and War3’s developments, they knew people would be doing this, because they had done it in War2!
They then did not take a dramatic measure to fix it, despite knowing that both games would see at least some competitive play. They continued to not “fix” it for SC2.
This is because it wasn’t considered a big problem. Which is because it really isn’t.
And you want to argue otherwise, and that’s good! I really want to hear the actual argument you have here. In what ways do the cheeses you are complaining about have unfair advantages over the ones you aren’t?
Hey pee-wee. I don’t try in any of our games. Or can’t you tell by you barely winning when I spam text through the entire game? Still doesn’t change the fact youre hard stuck 4.6k at the same level I am. lol.
You dodged it again. How can you conclude what you conclude when there is unequal income. Why would you assume equal Outcome ? And again, this Outcome would btw mean zerg si overall easiest, protoss in the Middle and terran hardest. This is pretty weird considering zerg is least similiar to other races and also least familiar while terran is Most similiar and Most familiar.
There is a top 100 gm zerg with the bnet tag Adventurer. Hmm. I wonder if that’s a coincidence. I am hardstuck with you at 4.6k? Not in a million years, bud. My top 100 account is only that low because I leave vs any protoss opponent over 5k. My ZvT and ZvP are both 70% which is equivalent to top 10 in gm. I simply refuse to play against protoss on this patch. Protoss players think they are entitled to your time, and they are not. I accidentally left vs a 4600 protoss, I didn’t look at their mmr, and gave them +114 mmr. Lmao. Screenshots in the thread. Use your eyes, please. Explain to me how exactly you think a 4600 zerg can give 114 mmr to a 4600 protoss. Do you even understand how the ladder works, at all?
Sorry, ZvZ and ZvT are 70%. ZvP is 50%, lol, not even gonna play vs them if they are over 5k. It’s just a time management strategy, honestly. Anyone below 5k is simply too much mmr to lose so I have to play it out. By the way it’s a meme account like the rest. I do nothing but mass hydra builds in all matchups & that’s what’s achieving 70% win-rates. It’s flipping insane. I had an EU gm raging at me and calling me a hacker because I 3-0’d him with mass hydras.
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2173288039?t=19760s
This one is even better, lmfao:
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2173288039?t=16773s
By the way, that game is a perfect example of why I don’t play vs protoss. It’s a joke race. It’s a very bad joke, but a joke none the less. A dude with 1/100th the experience w/ toss (compared to his terran) is basically as good with protoss (as his terran) because he can build cannons. Despite this I clown on him so hard he cries that I am a cheater at ~13:30. Gotta love it. Nobody could possibly realize you might spend your extra gold minerals by expanding EXCEPT through hacks.
Gotta love his rant at the end of it LOL: "Bro, guy is playing on American internet, on an American-made game, on the American server, and he’s talking about india. It’s like, brother, get your head on straight, man, get your head on straight. "
So, they knew when building SC1 and War3 that people would do it. And, since they had thought about it earlier, they definitely had time to invest in finding a fix if it was important, for both SC1 and War3. They had no obligation keep it, and every reason to fix it.
They didn’t. Like, you understand that that means that they did not think that it was a big enough of a problem. They consciously decided to let you do it, because they couldn’t think of a way to restrict it that was still enjoyable, or they thought it, itself, was fun.
This gets ever more exacerbated if we’re talking about SC2, because it was known from the moment the game started development that it was going to be played competitively like this. It was a vital feature of the game that it was mindful of competitive players.
They left the tactics in, so they clearly believe these to be competitive-acceptable strategies!
Like, from the other thread, you said these–
And I think there’s a convincing argument that when building War2 they didn’t know this. But they absolutely knew it going into SC1.
I plan to talk about your point in a future post, but the short answer is we were — in retrospect — too scared of the consequences to allow players to be able to build anywhere on the map. […]
After launch it was clear that the road-building requirement was the greatest flaw in War1, and was therefore one of the first things fixed in War2 — mostly a matter of ripping out code.
If we had more development time we might even have fixed it in War1, but boy was the entire project a race against time.
“It”, in the last sentence, is “the road-building requirement was the greatest flaw in War1.”
Now, whether or not they would have fixed it the same way is unclear, but it’s clear from the phrasing to me that their idea of “fix” here was “ripping out code”, ergo, the implication of that fix being the same one is fairly clear to me.
I’ve answered this about 1.5 million times. But fine, goldfish: If you discount lower MMR because the input is uneven, you have to discount everything. Premier tournaments? Maybe Protoss just isn’t as popular among the most highly skilled? Which is more likely? That 5 less skill players randomly picked Protoss? Or that 50,000 less skilled players randomly picked Terran?
But this doesnt have anything to do with the unequal Setup. The unequal Setup being terran being much much much more popular and zerg being the Most unpopular Race by far. This Setup is so far from a lab test and is so biased that simple conclusions Like hey maybe terran is the hardest Race based on AVG mmr is pretty nonsense.
And this is actually the Problem of your theory. They did Not randomly Pick terran. There is a Clear bias. I have told you this Like 500 Times now. The Race selection is biased.
Yeah, you do keep saying that. It’s almost like you feel that if you keep saying it, eventually it will be true. While it is undeniable that Terran is more popular, what you haven’t demonstrated is the second half of that assumption: Terran is more popular among less skilled players [and also Protoss is not less popular amongst the most skilled of players]
If its popular it means the Race selection is biased. If the selection is biased you cannot assume Same starting Points for every Race. This is pretty easy Logic
The second Part is about more People Pick terran that are Casual is a) logical because of familiarity and campaign and introduction to sc2 but is also Backed Up by the fact that terran is flooding the Low leagues without having any Metric to assume that they dont belong there. Because they in fact belong there
So yeahh…you dont have a single Argument why they wouldnt belong there. Which metric Supports your View ?
Let me reiterate: prove why familiarity is more important to people of lower skill. This is what I mean by you are assuming Terran players are lower skill without proof. I’ve asked you for metrics to define this casualness for about 3 years now and it’s like you just shutdown and keep regurgitating the same nonsense over and over.
Sure? The skill level of the Protoss in the top 50 worldwide players is lower than that of the Terran and Zergs in that population.
If we assume the game is approximately balanced, that’s one of the fairly few reasonable conclusions.
But this would be false equivalence. These two points seem far more related and similar than they actually are, and have colossally different takeaways.
Protoss’ poor showing in premiers has plenty of explanations, and Miro has done a rather stand-out job in breaking down why some of these errors cascade to failure states.
I don’t think that the skill difference is the only reason - I think the main one is the design of the Disruptor - but it is definitely a contributor. I’ve watched so many Protoss do unwise things with gas-intense or production-limited units that it’s pretty hard to say otherwise.
Throwing away High Templar is a problem with how gas-dependent Protoss is, throwing away a Warp Prism is a problem with how most builds only have one Robotics Facility for so long. I’ve watched many times these happen for minimal gains that it’s pretty difficult to say anything else.
bruh
you cannot be serious
have you not interacted with humans? have you not played a board game? have you not asked people questions about why they do things?
the less confident people are, the more likely they are to do a thing they already know something about - the person with the least skill is the most likely to either do the same general outline a hundred times, or to make up fifty terrible ideas that have no chance of working because they lack knowledge.
familiarity is comfort, familiarity is having fun. for players who have less skill these things make complicated things more approachable.
Wait a second. You said you uninstalled the game. Did you reinstall it ? If so then you really missed SC2. Exactly how many alt accounts do you have ? 15 ?
THAT number is stuck to me for the last 4 years. I see this number everywhere almost to the point that im starting to believe it’s showing me something. According to some christian numerology it says that 37 is a message from angels that i’m on good path of life.
