Not being able to tranfuse off creep has made bc

Did you forget that only terrans get free scouts? You’re walled in from a ling scout and overlords can spot something only if your opponent is too dumb to put some marines on the cliff.

That’s great for us diamond/masters players, doesn’t change the fact that it’s a free win either way against the vast majority of players (80%+), even with a good scout. Since you know they aren’t spreading creep well and would have to sacrifice their third to stop a BC.

It’s literally a hero unit in tvz outside of us sweaty try hards who spent 10s of thousands of games learning this cheesy crap.

One unit to end a game with no scouting or macro required. Prove me wrong.

You would cry and rage so hard if 1 broodlord or ultra at the 5 min mark could just end a game against terran, fortunately for you, only terrans get hero units.

2 Likes

They do get roach/ravager with burrow…

Edit: I forgot the queen.

I know it’s tough that zerg might need to tech up a little bit to match the BC, or just kill them sub 4 minutes sweet…

Actually I think anything beats BC

I think terran has problems holding off a good roach/ravager rush with normal play, never mind BC rushing Lol
You’re lucky to get to tanks

OR you can play zerg normally and just be a base up

If you don’t believe me, you can go watch some of the top terrans in the world lose to roaches

Your first overlord is free, not to mention its sitting at the pervert pillar anyway. And its 100 minerals to make a 2nd one. Alternatively, you could get ovi speed and not lose it at all, which benefits you through the match.

Also, if you’re going BCs that early, you’re probably not going to have enough marines to shoot it down fast.

Don’t tell me it doesn’t work or its a waste of money - we see high level players do it all the time, and they’re playing against players far, far better than you, and successfully hold it off just fine.

Your third should be up before 3 minutes, and often faster than that. A BC opening doesn’t stop that, or force you to sacrifice it.

The BC is literally the most expensive non-hero unit in the game. It costs more than a command center to make, which is an absolutely gargantuan investment that early on, and has to get a LOT of drone kills to pay for itself and break even.

So again, as I said before, you just want the freedom to do nothing but macro with no pressure and no care in the world, because aparently, learning to scout is too hard. Learning too adjust your build is to hard. Learning to do anything other than make drones is too hard. Newsflash, the victory screen doesn’t just appear once you get to 90 drones, you actually have to work for it.

The vast majority of the games at that level, regardless of what opening you do, is won by the player who makes more stuff and generally macros better. Hell, even in diamond and above that tends to be the case.

That isn’t how burden of proof works. You’re making the claim, it’s on you to prove it.

And it definitely still requires scouting to make sure you’re not going to die to a ravager all in, bane bust or whatever other early timing a zerg can do. Some openings are just not good into other openings. You don’t make helions to hold a 200/200 roach push, for example.

Honestly? I doubt it. My instinct isn’t to cry and rage, its to actively find a solution to the problem. Get help from friends, see where I can improve or tighten up timings, macro, change the way I defend or scout etc.

It’s ironic considering you’re the one making this salt thread. I’m just here providing solutions, you just want to be angry.

You’re allowed to be angry, but that doesn’t mean that you’re right or that the proposed solutions don’t work. It’s on you if you ignore them.

3 Likes

This is hysterical. I’ve never heard that term but it shows your bias clearly. Lol funny term though.

If they finish the third and a BC is coming, they are dead unless they are masters.

BC is way cheaper than a brood lord, I think you should try your maths again, bruh.

I did prove it, you just have no idea how the match up works and think 1 queen can stop a BC. 3 queens cant stop a single bc.

So you’re the only terran in the world who isn’t part of the terran cry force? Please, you guys cried for years (from 2012 until 2019) until you got buffed and zerg units got nerfed over a dozen times and the match up became one sided. It used to be the most fun match up to watch and play, now it’s easily terran favored. I miss hots/early lotv when it was actually a good match up.

The fact of the matter is, if someone had never played before, they would easily win their first game if you told them “just build 1 BC”. There is no equivalent for zerg or protoss.

It’s a fairly colloquial term thats been used a few times in the past, but is an otherwise apt description of what the pillars are there for in general.

I try my best to generally remain as neutral as possible.

A BC isn’t going to come before a third is finished anyway, and that’s assuming you start it around the later 3 minute mark when most 3rds should be started quite a bit earlier than that. Either way, you shouldn’t be straight up dying unless you’re bad, and if your bad then the solution is to look at what and how other players - especially higher level players - deal with the problem.

The BC alone is 400/300. The corruptor is 150/100. The cost of morphing a Broodlord from a corruptor is 150/150. This is a total of 300/250. The Broodlord is vastly cheaper than a BC. That’s simple math.

You’re not trying to kill the BC. You’re trying to ward it away and buy enough time to get the tech that can actually properly and more permanently deal with BCs. And no, you haven’t proved anything. You have made a claim and then gone “I’m right because I said so” without any actual proof.

Your diamond league replays are not proof, and the fact remains that you didn’t even present that not to mention, you’re not playing someone who is at Maru’s level. You’re playing someone at your level, which means their control and execution is going to be just as bad as your own.

And you call me biased for using the term “pervert pillar” and immediately use this ridiculous monkier.

I would say I’m far from the only person in the world, terran or otherwise, who is not part of the group you and others have labeled the “TCF”. I do my best to remain impartial and get as many facts as I can, but I’m only human - I definitely have my own biases, but I do my damnedest to mitigate them. Aparently you don’t do the same, but I’m not exactly surprised considering the consistent attitude that you have displayed regularly on this forum.

It really isn’t. TvZ, as of April, is at 52%, and trending back towards 50%. It has been consistently below 55% for years - Blizzard’s own margin of error for balance issues, and regularly swings back and forth between Zerg and Terran dominance. I would go a little further and say that multiple consistent periods of over say… 53% would show imbalance, which narrows the margine down to about 6% instead of 10%, and we don’t and havent seen that in a long time in either direction.

HotS was decent at points but was characterized by huge periods of garbage. 2012 had the hellbat meta which got quickly nerfed.

Then we had the mine nerf that completely removed terran for any competetive play for almost a full year across 2013-2014 in which Zerg literally didnt have to do anything other than a-move across the terran army and win because no amount of splitting, kitting, stutter stepping or the like could make up for the fact that the only viable splash damage terran had to deal with banes was effectively removed from play since mutas got buffed in the HotS beta - which negated tanks as a viable splash option as now there was little to no risk of diving on the tanks and killing them off, since damage was almost immediately regenerated a minute later, hellbats were and are still useless with bio, thors were straight up garbage, and tanks had were terrible back then anyway outside of TvT. That doesn’t even take into account the damage the mine nerf did in TvP before it was reverted.

That era was immediately which was followed by the 3+hour long games of the swarm-host cancer meta that was boring as hell to watch and play to the point where people got in trouble for tabbing out of the game while playing pro matches.

Then we went into early LotV which was characterised by auto inect in the LotV beta that made every zerg who knew how to press the drone key look like they had Rogue’s macro mechanics, after which we had tankivacs, that were absolutely awful to play against from any race, 8 armour ultras and 6-7 minute hive rushes in tandem with significantly nerfed marauders that were completely useless against them, and no actual counter on the terran side that weren’t liberators (stopgap measure at best unless the zerg was stupid enough to engage directly under a million libs and into a choke point).

I could go on, but suffice to say we are currently in one of the most balanced periods of the game across pretty much all matchups, and frankly TvZ had been pretty well balanced for years.

You don’t have to agree with me, but it doesn’t change the stats.

Source: http://aligulac.com/misc/balance/

You could argue the same thing of carriers or tempests or void rays or colossus for protoss, or ling/bane for Zerg. The caliber and level of play at that level makes the statement irrelevant and frankly does not make the argument you think you’re making. If you have to go so low as to the stage where players struggle with even basic macro concepts, where “just make more stuff” applies, where you can literally beat players with nothing but drones, then you have failed in proving your point.

Let me remind you, our own diamond level replays are not proof. There is a reason people look at high level players and plays to improve, as well as to site balance issues.

4 Likes

I can cry about the terran MULE not attacking, yet the zerg queen does.

Asymmetrical balance.

Terran have a weakness to zerg in the early game, as their units are susceptible to lings, banes etc.

I could also cry about zerg spending less on production structures.

One could argue that a competent zerg could snowball a lead off their early game presence…

Pretty sure it’s your ignorance doing the talking. Casters like PiG use that term 24/7 and it even has a nice ring to it. It’s also pretty known in the community (if you at least play some games that is).

For the rest of the post I can just refer to as “what Miro said”.

2 Likes

Looks like you admit yourself, it’s between 2-5% on average favored for terrans. It will never be balanced like it used to be.

Terrans cried too much until ultra/broods/vipers/infestors were all nerfed into the ground, that is the ENTIRE LATE GAME ARMY FOR ZERG. Pro players hardly even use them now, and prefer to chill in the mid game. On top of that, terrans cried more until maruaders/bcs/cyclones/ghosts all got buffed into hero units.

The match up will never be balanced again, this game is dead and I only smurf now to ruin peoples experiences.

No, you objectively cannot. You cannot make 1 zergling or 1 carrier or 1 void ray and win a game, thats not how the game works. BUT, you can make 1 BC and win the game, against any race, especially at low MMR. Maybe you should chill on the forums thing and try to play some matches. It feels like a lot of you guys haven’t played the game since pre covid.

I’m masters 2, but only with zerg, so I guess you are going to insult me about that too. I instead choose to smurf now because zerg are nothing but a punching bag race who have to sit on their hands while everyone else gets to be aggressive. This game is a pathetic shadow of it’s former self.

3 Likes

Are you an idiot or are you just being contrarian? Terran have the single best early unit in the game, the marine. It also hard counters lings and banes before upgrades. HAHA wtf are you talking about? Stuck in silver much?

1 Like

Didn’t think I’d see the day when people mistake hellions for marines.

2 Likes

You literally can never have an exactly 50/50 win rate, and I also said in that statement that it goes back and forth between Zerg and Terran. Regularly so. This is a balanced state - you just pretend its imbalanced because you want to blame it for you being bad and want a reason to do the very thing you accuse terrans of doing.

Ironic that we see them used pretty much every lategame scenario. The more I reply to you, the more certain I am that you never watch any high level games or players. We literally just saw them in DH valencia a couple weeks ago - the last major tournament.

Marauders were reverted, back to actually being useable from an otherwise completely useless state that was so bad you might as well build anything else - you were literally better off building marines against ultras back then, and marines did exactly 1 point of damage to them.

Cyclones were also absolute garbage, because they were insanely bugged to the point of being unusable. What the tool tips said theor lock on and attack ranges were were actually very wrong - its a well known fact that they were about 2 range shorter than they should have been. You also rarely ever see battlemech these days.

BCs were quite literally never used until tac jump was implemented, and we regularly see them being held just fine these days.

Ghosts were worse than useless outside of EMP back before their changes as well. Zerg players got them nerfed into oblivion after rapidfire was discovered because they were very, very strong - likely even OP - and were capable of countering broodlord infestor in WoL. Zergs didn’t like that, and so ghost was all but removed from the matchup. I do agree that it is probably overtuned now, but it also takes a little to use

We regularly saw the first pack of 6 zerglings - 150 minerals - straight up end the game for protoss by killing the first pylon for protoss for a little while - at pro level. Its not as common now, but it definitely happened.

The voidray shield battery cheese for Protoss in PvT regularly just ended the game for Terran if you didn’t essentially blind counter it, and was almost always an auto loss for the terran unless the Protoss threw the game by fighting away from batteries. It’s still very strong now, though not as strong after the battery nerf.

Let me remind you that a BC costs 400/300, not including research and production costs. Off 1 or 2 base, that takes quite a while to build as an opening, and rarely, if ever, ends a game straight up at higher levels. The game is not balanced for low level play 99% of the time, because 99% of the time the answer for them is literally to just make more units. Saying it ends the game for a bronze league player is 100% irrelevant.

Cool that you’re M2 though, but it’s hard to believe considering you hide your profile on the forums - unless you play on EU? And considering you dont know the basic math of a broodlord cost. Still doesn’t make you right. Pulling the league card definitely doesn’t help your argument by the way.

I see. You’re just an awful person then. Maybe the reason you feel that the BC straight up ends people is because you’re a higher level player with better mechanics that is playing against players who are leagues below you and barely know their right from their left in this game. Go back to playing people of your own level.

2 Likes

Are you referring to probably the least used or ever seen unit at the pro level? I go entire GSLs without ever seeing one made. They are by definition, currently one of the least useful units according to pro’s.

1 Like

This is exactly why terrans are impossible to reason with. Your all too busy being victims. Marines are a great unit, possibly the best unit in the game.

1 Like

I watch every GSL, ya know, the GLOBAL starcraft pros. Maybe stop watching matches between scrubs that Special can wipe the floor with. At least he can make it into GSL, even if he never has a decent showing.

I actually agree with this, but the answer wasn’t making BC the “noobtube” of staracraft and making ghosts able to instantly kill all hive units with snipe WHILE INVISIBLE. Def overtuned imo as well.

If you want to go back 12 years we can talk about how 3 rax won a lot of pro games too. I don’t accept this answer as very plausible in modern sc2.

Ah yes, “we should only balance the game the pros” argument. We might as well not play then and just watch. This is the attitude that killed the game.

You are the one who kept calling me plat and diamond, “pulling the league card” as you put it. The fact of the matter is, only masters/high diamonds actually play this game now, even in the smurf/low leagues. It’s a dead game with only a hardcore audience left. New players only play coop/custom games because of how poorly designed the match ups are.

A bigger person would say when the deck is stacked against you, you should always take the high road.
I am not that person, I LOVE smurfing and smashing all these trash BC/shield battery/roach and ravager builds into the ground while I abuse my better mechanics. Now that’s a good time when someone cheesing you with unfair bullsh. I am not here to make friends, and I don’t give a damn about their feelings. I hope they do quit, if enough people quit, maybe the starcraft license will get sold to a company that gives a damn.

3 Likes

I just pulled up the latest GSL video and saw 3 made in late game match up at the 40:23 marker. Then if you go back to april 22, last season, Maru used them several times to win late game.

Do all terrans have to lie and cry to get there way? You guys seriously ruined this game by making it terran craft. You get a hard counter to every unit and screw everyone else right? Good mentality.

Uh huh, now count numbers of units per number of games played for all terran units. And let us know which ones terran pros use most and least. We won’t hear back with your results. :wink:

Are you always this angry while also being completely wrong in front of everybody? Even though you clearly aren’t getting the point - the point is BC is easily the least used and least useful terran unit. (Though admittedly, banshees aren’t all that common either.) Even reapers get made most games.

You are quite simply and factually wrong about BC being an “autowin”. Everyone here with a clue knows it. If they were, they would get used a LOT more when money is on the line.

Your claim it is an “autowin” was already a lie. You are the one posting lies you crying little liar. You could try not posting nonsense and lies again, or continue to make a total clueless fool of yourself. Your choice. :slight_smile:

Also, btw, my post wasn’t a lie. It is a fact. There are hundreds of games played in a GSL Code S, starting with 64 players in Ro32 with a best of 3 format. I admit I don’t watch every single game. I have time in my life to watch maybe 1/5 of the games. What I said is I have gone an entire GSL without seeing one. And that is a true statement. Because BC is a rarely used unit in tournament play.

And yes, anyone can google “Maru using a battlecruiser” which is what you did. Because we know you didn’t watch hundreds upon hundreds of hours of games to sadly try to be right. And if you claim you did, you are going to be mocked again. :slight_smile:

“Autowin” is a factual lie. Do all zergs have to lie and cry to get their way? Lol.

Quoting it before the compulsive liar CellarDoor, who starts attacking people in every thread, goes back and starts editing all the lies he has been posting and crying about.

He should have stayed civil, but…this is fun destroying his false and stupid claims. Hope he replies. :smiley:

GABRIEL DESTROYS LIBTARD IN BRUTAL TAKEDOWN

Not sure about his politics or if he is even in the western world. But it wasn’t hard. All he needs to do to avoid this sort of humiliation is stay civil, stop lying, stop attacking people, and keep his posts above the “angry 2 year old stamping his feet and throwing a tantrum” level.

Are you spying on him? how can you see that he’s doing these things?