Invincibility during NP would be insane without drastic changes to how NP works otherwise. I’ll agree that Infestors could use help though because they’re basically just FG machines, which is pretty good but also really micro intensive and leaves them really vulnerable.
Nerf void rays- definitely, imho roll back all the buffs from the last patch.
Nerf carrers - Imho a bad idea. Carrers arent that great. IF you compare carrers and bc , bc is better in every aspect apart from the interceptors messing the targeting of units.And bc got teleport and Yamato.
@ABS yeah Protoss cheeses are annoying, but so are 2,3 raxes proxies … If void rays is nerfed, it will take out the sting of most of them, Protoss wont be able to transition so easily into skytoss.
If you went mass bc and Protoss havent scouted it and defended , you did somethign very wrong. I had plenty of game I actually scouted bcs , and I as PRotoss lost lol. Basicly you can just attack bases left and right and teleport out if in trouble, the Protoss economy will die.
@Nonkel As you admited yourself, you are a broodwar player and yeah you should learn basics fiirst, alot of things changed. Lurkers are deadly, and corruptors actually can anihilate carrers.
Some of the maps in 4v4 makes Void Rays really feel oppressive with the speed upgrade, as they can zip in, kill some stuff and zip out. I’m guessing that’s where a lot of the sentiment comes from. There’s a particular map where each team has two “protected” expansions per player but they’re super vulnerable to air, so every game on that map ends in cheese, timing rushes or air. Ground units lategame just aren’t utilized a lot.
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nobody cares about 4v4.
voids are just fine.
“Lurkers are deadly, and corruptors actually can anihilate carrers.”
I respectfully disagree. Lurkers don’t shoot at carriers and while corruptors MAY take down carriers (although in my experience, it’s a bad trade), (1) the carrier can retreat and heal, (2) the carrier can shoot while moving, which also means (3) the carrier is usually out of range because interceptors, and (4) the carrier is equally deadly against groundtargets, whereas the corruptor does 0 DPS on the ground. And --although debatable I admit in advance-- (5) the Protoss player doesn’t even have to look, whereas the Zerg has to manually target or the corruptor will shoot impotently at 'ceptors.
My conclusion: corruptor does NOT counter carriers in the slightest … even though it’s the only option we have. It’s still quite horrible. Seems like all the effort is on the Zerg and we still get the short end of the stick. Well at least that’s my point of view. I’m sure the PRO players will have another opinion so I’ll leave it for your consideration.
Have a nice day gentlemen :tips hat:
The Lurker was an example of new units that are very good, because you wrote as if all zerg units sucked, not a counter to carrer.Its a very good anti ground unit.
As for corruptors vs carrers… I just went to unit tester (sc2 game ->arcade->unit tester) and spawned 25 corruptors and 10 carrers.
For zerg its 3750 min and 2500 gas spent taking 50 supply.
For Protoss its 4500 mins and 2500 gas and 60 supply.
I a moved the carrers and shift clicked on them with corruptors.
Result: All carrers dead, 14 coruptors left.
Corruptors are hard counter to carrers, test it yourself. All the pro players know it, all the community knows it. If you dont , i dont know what to tell you.
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I knew that you dont watch pro games from your first sentence on. Lurkers are so powerful that pros actually would advice to NOT building anything ground related vs lurkers. And corrupters completly destroy carriers and that not only on top level. The micro from both sides (zerg and protoss) aint too hot. They are both low micro units. So even players on lower level can use them effectively.
Last but not least: In the tooltip for unit interactions they have put an “strong against” “weak against” overview. Just for guys like you. Look it up: liquipedia. net/starcraft2/Carrier_(Legacy_of_the_Void)
As it goes for lurkers, watch harstem: youtube. com/watch?v=boaXEAmC-tg&lc=UgwhLVe6pxzKBmEWyY54AaABAg.9WYiSVU5Uv49WbFi2ZJ9I0
In short: Neglect anything ground related and start doing fake attacks while not actually attacking since nothing you can build can effectively deal with lurkers (not even disruptor). Get oracle for reliable detection and get tempest/carrier.
Edit: To refute your arguments directly: The carriers can NOT retreat as they are much slower (movement speed 2.62 for carriers to 4.725 for corrupters and dont forget the acceleration aswell), if you mean recall then sure they can but it gives you many secs to kill 2 or 3 which is a huuuuge deal. Corrupter can also be healed (Queens; carrier have rather low dps especially vs corrupters, so there is plenty of time to heal) and also as they are zerg units they are healing anyway. The carrier can shoot while moving which is true but corrupter are way faster (and you could use vipers ofc) you will easily reach carriers in no time and can mow them down. The 4th argument is not really a point at all if you compare how the units interact with each other. And argument number five is the same as i stated before: both units dont require much micro. Both units should focus fire and focus fire is something you generally should do and its not like its something completly new. The game is out for like 12 years already.
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This clown amuses himself by spewing outrageous BS…
I am not sure that this imbecile truly believes this drivel. It was BatZ tactics to inundate this forum with BS, we encountered another copycat.
Actually the common sentimentamong pros, even among Protoss pros, is voids arent fine, even in 1v1. And I agree with them, imho all the buffs from last patch should be reverted.
You should experience the ancient trick called focus fire.
Without archons or stoms,corruptors will beat carriers every time at same cost as long as you target the carriers and do not asimple amove.
Carriers are not a problem,although I would nerf them,they are pretty fast for a big ship and overall I dislike mass air strategies,
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Fast? Lol that unit role was assault any position so he already slow like capital schip who leads attack ah yes these days a marine kill 350 250 without focus fire good times pay effort for getting carrier against simple mmm in gas cost no where close to protoss
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If you are careful with details you would note that Carrier, Mothership and HP have the same speed. Old Tempest (before the big changes) used to have exactly the same speed as that gropup (2.62 if i am not wrong).
Considering that Protoss is a deathball race (several units have to interact covering each-other with their synergies) Carrier speed is as is.
Are not enough the huge nerffs that they suffered?
Yes I know, every big ship should have broodlord speed,except maybe tempest. Big ships and air units usually lead to boring styles,game is always more enjoyable when the games are mostly ground based because the units are low supply and cheaper, meaning it requires less turtling.
That would be the case if Protoss ground would be a viable composition without Airtoss fleet. Till then.
The Templar speed that Carrier posses is not something remarkable. Usually when the ultimate army reaches the destination (on the other side of the map) he last units to assemble are Carrier and Mothership. HP, being a ground unit not able to ignore terrain arrives even later.
Carrier in itself is not that strong, it is the composition that protects them that causes the whine.
Whinners here feel entitled to win games refusing to counter compositions and focus-firing.
No one should have the right to win games just by a-moving beyond Gold (i am speaking about whiners here, not you of course).
I agree, I think mid game compositions are much more fun. I noticed that in PvP when i cant break my opponent in mid game and I advance to carrers I do it with a silent sigh , because i know it wont be that fun.And yes I still will do it, cause at my level, in PvP , whoever gets first a respectable amount of carrers nearly alwys wins and I do enjoy wining :).Yes you can counter in theory with tempests, but you will be behind in the air race and usually wont have time to build up the count. In other matchups i cant remember last time I went for carrers. In PvZ going for carrers is an awkward proposition, when even enough marines will deal with them, and anyway the game is alwys fast and agressive enough neither side have time or resources to switch to carrers or bcs. In PvZ I alwys loose or win in mid game.
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Even if P ground is rather underwhelming, it is still more fun and more enjoyable than teching and camping on top of shield batteries,not to mention the advantages of air units such as vision and being able to fly over cliffs and other obstacles making the composition easy to use.
In my opinion most of air units should be rebalanced and overall, being nerfed with few exceptions, and then some ground stuff being buffed.
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OK, in principle i am not against nerffing somewhat the air (Carrier build-time increase and revert of Void buffs) if and only if the Protoss ground is buffed to a certain degree.
It’s a way to rebalance the game and shook the meta.
Oi. Mate. Uncalled for. Be civil or be gone. Has it occured to you that maybe Blizz changed the corruptors since last I tried to use them? After all they rebalance stuff every month it seems and I’ve been playing SC2 since it came out so grant me the benefit of the doubt here. If tou think Corruptors are fine, then that is your opinion and you can keep your insults to yourself.
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Indeed. There’s usually some archons and tempests in there.
Read the following carefully:
The group of Carriers (6-7) in order to survive has to be protected by 5-6 Voids, 4-5 Templars and possibly 2-3 Archons under the Mothership.
You only see those big-bad Carriers on the sky and ignore all the rest of the composition that is required to protect them.
Just Carriers are the most easy composition to defeat for a half-decent Zerg that knows how to Focus-fire.
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