Yeah. I think it’s because it’s easy to see the world one has created to move in your head, for it to be alive, but it’s harder to translate it for the others since they don’t share your mind. By the way, we can exchange our work on Discord, if you want.
Sure thing. I have absolutely nothing written in English, but I can talk/write about the plots and worlds I have so far. I ventured into mostly fantasy, as it is the easiest in my opinion to set up, but lately (for about a year now) I have been adding more and more detail into a dark western story I’m writing.
I actually write my stuff in english, so you don’t need CZE-HUN translator.
I’m far from the only person to criticize it. Few people criticize SC1, but too many to count criticized SC2.
Popularity does not determine quality. Twilight was hugely popular but that doesn’t make it good writing.
Right now, when my concern is building a solid foundation on which to plot.
When it comes to writing serious speculative fiction, you need to firmly build your world and setting in order to support your plot to the best of your ability. There’s a reason why Tolkien is considered literature but academics look down their noses at science fiction and fantasy.
Blizzard is generally terrible when it comes to both world building and plot. A few decent stories here and there don’t compensate for all the bad parts.
Yes, now they’re peaceful space hippies who want to sit around campfires with terrans and protoss singing kumbaya. Gag me with a spork.
There’s a good reason why the majority of zerg-centric campaigns 1) feature the zerg as monsters and 2) were made in SC/BW before SC2 released.
Blizz did it because they were too incompetent to make the zerg interesting without making them play second fiddle to the terrans. This didn’t make the zerg more interesting, it ruined them. Their prior culture was annihilated without being explored, they became slaves to psychotic small-minded Kerry, and the SC2 zerg characters are bland as heck. Now that Kerry’s out of the picture, the zerg are blander than ever since Blizz focused all their effort on Kerry.
I talked with plenty of zerg esports fans elsewhere. They agree that the appeal of the zerg is that they’re monsters. Friendly Kerry and the space hippies don’t enter into the appeal.
I keep saying this, but for some reason people keep insisting otherwise. Blizzard isn’t good at writing, but that doesn’t mean we can’t do better.
That doesn’t makeup for the bad writing that composes the main plot. Most fans have no idea the good stories exist.
Yes. Right now. Let ‘r rip.
The old complaints were applied months ago, and my pitch has undergone numerous revisions since. Any complaints must be revised for the new material.
Yes
Aight. Add me on Discord (Bart Fitzgerald#2671) or BattleNet (BartFitz#2928) and we can fire away. As a sidenote, I won’t be near my computer until the evening of Sunday as I’m out visiting the missus. Oh, and CET timezone on my part.
Maybe, but I think you’d benefit from deconstructing Starcraft’s plot and story structure to figure out why it’s popular, rather than just bashing it because it’s popular.
There are a lot of space operas and military sci-fi stories out there, but few achieved the level of popularity that Starcraft did. Even Dawn of War never became as popular as Starcraft, and that was another RTS game with a lot of polish, created for an already well-established sci-fi IP.
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Well, I’d much rather be his Brother than a witch at his pyre. ^^
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So you do understand that sometime people called an apple an orange. It’s just a small mistake; just correct it and move on!
Then let us call it a pitch.
Yeah, yeah. I mistakenly call it a story, I know. Can we move along?
What about the mAnUaL? What about comparing those story, I mean pitch, within the mAnUaL and pronounced part of the game retcon because it’s inconsistent with your idea that stem from reading those story… err… pitch!
Do you understand the concept of hearsay? This is it! If you want his/her expert opinion to be heard, then bring him/her here. So that we can discuss and talk it all out with him/her. If all you got is that some random guy I met on the Internet, whose credential we can’t verify, claims that StarCraft military is lame, then I’m not going to take you seriously.
Either bring him or his argument here.
We all do! You should be go read our post back in the day. Actually, seeing as you like to ask us to read your story and books, how about you read our older post? Back when he was the Hammer, our Beacon criticizes the story every week.
I love this game and its story despite its flaws.
Let us pause here a minute. I hope you’ll get it…
Any minute, now…
Really? You really think that about yourself?
StarCraft is not popular because of its story. It is popular because of its gameplay. The overwhelming majority of fans don’t care about the story.
You need to read classic scifi authors like Asimov, Heinlein, Herbert, or Lovecraft. All these video games have rotten your brain.
Do you have statistics? I feel like you’re making it up. Starcraft clearly isn’t remotely top tier scifi. It’s lore fandom is the most anemic I’ve seen and absolutely none of the big nerd forums I checked like to discuss it. Stargate, Star Trek, Star Wars, Warhammer 40k, The Expanse, Lovecraft, Voltron and countless others are much more active.
There’s under two thousand StarCraft fanfics on ffnet going back 20 years and most are repetitive Kerry/Raynor romance novels. There’s barely a distinction from Twilight. One of the most popular stories involves a de-infested Kerry having, ahem, relations with her pet zergling.
Starcraft has terrible writing, terrible world building, and terrible characters. This anemic sub forum has the largest concentration of fans on the internet. I’ve scoured the web for years to find that out.
Starcraft’s story is far from popular. It’s quite obscure. For whatever reason, it just doesn’t attract that much interest.
Imagine an alternate version of the manual in which the backstory explained the infinite cycle, Amon and Duran’s evil plan, queen of blades prophecy, the UED spy network, etc.
It would come across as schlocky and silly. The original manual isn’t high art, sure, but it’s still believable and serious in tone.
The story as of the most recent retcons reads like a parody of bad scifi. That’s probably why it has so few fans, given that this poor quality should be obvious to most consumers, while countless people enjoy the gameplay sans story.
Alright, you win, for whatever that’s worth. He wasn’t interested in explaining his reasons to me, since he’s only interested in WarCraft.
I’d like to see you convince a military historian to explain how the schlock story of Starcraft is remotely respectable. It’s so awful that you don’t need to be a military historian to point out its flaws.
Among other things, Amon should have been able to control the protoss on Aiur through the khala and merged them with the zerg millions of years prior. The only reason he didn’t is because he was retconned into the story.
The zerg followed the psi-emitter like cats on catnip and steamrolled opposition in episode 1 is a blatant contrivance. The writer needed an excuse to let Mengsk take over and betray Raynor, but was too lazy, incompetent, ignorant of logistics, and unprepared for future-proofing to devise an explanation that didn’t rely on reducing the zerg to a cheap plot device responsible for killing most of the human population at the time then conveniently leave after catching Kerry rather than eat Mengsk.
Stop trying to defend Starcraft for a moment and imagine if stuff like this happened in real life. Or some version of real life, anyway, since zerg aren’t real. Unlike Metzen’s imagination, real life has things like bad luck, consequences, logistics, limited resources, no space magic, etc. Do you 1) think that it sounds stupid for bug aliens to chase a single girl millions upon millions of miles, killing everyone in their path, then leave after catching her?, or do you 2) think that sounds too stupid ever happen in the first place and something else would happen instead?, or do you 3) think it makes perfect sense because she’s a super special snowflake and that totally makes sense to exist in a realistic universe?
Here’s a simple solution it took me five minutes to think of: Mengsk sent some enslaved zerg to attack strategic points, allowing him to replace the government in a coup. The aliens haven’t killed 90% of the sector because the writer arbitrarily decided so, so the population is sufficiently high that the military can still resist the continuing alien invasions.
Every interaction we’ve had indicates otherwise. This is the only sentence you’ve ever spoken where you claim Starcraft has any flaws whatsoever.
I never liked the story, but I didn’t start actively hating it until I started talking to fanboys on the internet. I hate it because people like you keep defending it and putting it on a pedestal of perfection rather than acknowledging the problems exist. You’ve never once acknowledged Starcraft has any flaws and chastised me relentlessly whenever I pointed out flaws.
Remember when I said Starcraft makes me angry all the time I think of it? I don’t get angry unprovoked. I became as hateful as I am now after listening to fanboys blather on about how much they exalt this pile of burning garbage.
Did you not read the numerous times I said that nobody was interested whenever I tried to pitch an original universe.
Every word from you fills me with rage. I hate listening to you and I don’t even know you.
Give me a moment to calm myself…
Would you give a crap if I tried to pitch an original universe? Hm? If not, then stop wasting my time.
Have you ever tried to engage with me rather than just bully me because it’s fashionable? I came to this hell of a forum to find people to talk to, and I only found bullies who want to verbally punch me for heresy.
I am easily open to new ideas, but only if the people suggesting are doing so in good faith. However, the critiques I have received have only ever in been in bad faith while hypocritically giving Blizzard’s bad writing a free pass.
I’ve been saying this forever. We’re expected to believe that Duran just twiddled his thumbs for eons doing…what? Nothing? He’s a full on Xel’Naga yet only decided to do something when the swarm that is supposed to be Amon’s slaves accidentally found the protoss.
Shouldn’t have retconned Amon to be in control of the Overmind and the Tal’Darim and the Khala the whole time if you wanted the story to make sense.
It’s hard to believe that he needed the energy from a single human/zerg hybrid to bring Amon back when he could have had access to more powerful protoss/zerg hybrids the whole time.
Damn, this is too relatable.
Welcome to the hell that I’ve endured here for years… ;p
Couple points about the psi emitter:
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Your primary problem with this plot device from what I can gather seems to be that nobody has used it to lure the zerg into a trap. Well…they did, as that’s kind of the plot of rebel yell. Each planet the protoss purified was essentially a trap for the zerg that the protoss purified. But this didn’t really do anything because the zerg can replicate en-masse. As long as a drone survives it doesn’t matter if you killed a whole bunch of them; they’ll just bounce back. This is why they’re overpowered.
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You’ve heard that the psi emitter naturally attracts zerg and the fan theory that it only works because the overmind is looking for psychics. Well, it’s technically the former. But the latter isn’t inaccurate either. The Overmind and Kerrigan can resist the effects of terran psi technology. This is evidenced when Kerrigan keeps her hive clusters together on Tarsonis with great concentration. The Overmind isn’t going to allow the swarm to be destroyed by psi emitters. Likewise, he wouldn’t allow the swarm to be lured away by psi emitters from something important, like, say, the invasion of Aiur. The psi emitters work, but the zerg can resist. Moreover, if this became a serious issue, I can see Abathur fixing it on the fly, like how the StarGate replicators can adapt on the spot. Doing so might have some disadvantages, so in the end, I bet you no swarm leader has ever cared enough to fix this “flaw”. The Overmind even let the swarm be incinerated on Chau Sara to see the protoss’s weapons. He flat out doesn’t care.
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In Brood War the protoss are worried about simple survival and don’t have time to mess around with psi technologies, in addition to having lost their great fleets (meaning that luring zerg into a trap like in rebel yell goes out the window). The terrans DO utilize psi technology against the zerg, only in the form of the Disruptor, which does the opposite of what the emitter does. The psi emitter counteracts the psi disruptor, which is what allowed Kerrigan to take control of zerg to destroy the disruptor on Braxis. You can’t use both the emitter and disruptor at the same time.
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This is uncalled for. I can understand your hatred for the story and the developers, but why are you taking it out on us again?
You missed my point. The thing is that you seemed to think the manual is quite a pitch and it is sufficed to overturn some of the in game story as retcon. And yet, you don’t seem to think that your google doc is anything much. My point is that your work is already long enough to be judged.
Then his opinion doesn’t a damn. I don’t care who you are; if you couldn’t be bother to defend your own opinion, then it’s worthless. Why would I or anyone value an opinion whose owner doesn’t value it enough to fight for it? This opinion is garbage. Any idiot could spout non sense all over the Internet, it takes real educated mind to defend it.
Bring them here then. Otherwise, they could be the second coming of Christ and I still don’t give a damn.
I can. I always do that to every franchise. You and I are much alike in this regard, the only difference between us is that I do it for a good laugh; just how silly this awesome premise actually is!; and then I move on. You do it and stuck in misery.
That’s because you don’t read my previous post or just forgot. Most recently, I complained about Protoss’ timeline. Prior to that I didn’t do much complaining because Gradius did. more than enough for the both of us. Speaking of which.
I know we have our differences, a lot of it in fact. But I do agree with your point most of the time. (The other time, we have argument that keep going on and on and on…) Like this Amon retcon, it bothers me since Heart of the Swarm. Narud didn’t need to order Raynor to gather those Artifact among other things.
It’s just that so many things bother me so much that it’s too tiresome to address them all. I have to ignore them or I won’t have a life. For example, it bothers me that you typed HoTS instead of HotS.
That’s completely on you. I think the Twilight is so boring~~ The first book has some potential, but every other books are bland and dull. And I love romance novel! Yet, I don’t get bitter or angry over people liking that novel. So what if someone else a media that you don’t? Why do you need to make other people hate stuff that they enjoy in their free time? What for? You come here trash talking stuff that I like; of course, I’m going to defend it. Worst as the Emperor keep telling you, you don’t even have the correct understanding of the story.
Yes, and I already told you that it might be because your work is not good.
Also, that’s not my point. My point is that you write your story for yourself; why does it matter to you if anyone else give it a damn? Are you writing to get a praise and generate interest? Or are you doing it to help you cope?
Okay, maybe I was over the line. I like to tease and making joke. Most of the time in an inappropriate manner and situation. I was teasing you for keep saying it’s a pitch not story. I didn’t do it out of malicious. I hope you, an autism you, should understand this the most. I’m not saying that it’s okay. For this, I’m sorry. But I’m sure you understand; I’m not bullying you. Also, I’m the least fashionable person you’ll ever meet. So that’s not why I do it, anyway.
Regardless, everybody else here has been trying their best to be respectful toward you. Calling out the whole community like that is unfair.
No, you’re not. You are very rigid in your way and super closed minded. Everybody has been argue with you in good faith. We always have. We don’t give Blizzard a free pass; we just don’t beat a dead horse, that’s all.
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Y’all know things are getting out of hand when Spirit starts losing temper.
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So, we’ve moved on to straight-up insulting my intelligence now, just because I like Starcraft’s story? Talk about uncalled-for.
Do you have statistics to support your claim that the “Overwhelming majority of fans don’t care about the story”? Because throughout the entire run of Starcraft 2’s story, you couldn’t go a day without people complaining about the story in some form or another, and going on and on about how Brood War’s story was better. If people didn’t care about the story, they wouldn’t have been talking about it at all.
I didn’t say it was among the highest tiers of sci-fi, but it’s still infinitely more popular than the tens of thousands of obscure, utterly forgotten sci-fi stories that have fallen by the wayside. I said “few”, not “every”.
You can look at the cinematics for Starcraft 2 on Youtube, which have tens of millions of views with comments like “I would pay tons of money to see a movie of this caliber”, and you can go to conventions where dozens of fans show off their cosplay outfits as Starcraft characters. That’s far more than most sci-fi stories can say.
And again, Warhammer 40k: Dawn of War tried to challenge Starcraft’s popularity, both in terms of story and gameplay, and failed on both fronts, even after many sequels and expansions. It was backed by Games Workshop itself and incorporated into the 40k canon, yet it fell to the wayside and ended up far more obscure than Starcraft.
Honestly, I’ve received the exact opposite impression from you. You’ve been extremely stubborn, very condescending and extremely closed-minded, tearing down the story at every opportunity and refusing to acknowledge anything positive about the storyline, worldbuilding, writing, characters or plot. You seemingly can’t handle the simple fact that other people might like things which you don’t like.
Your style of giving criticism reminds me all-too-much of the criticism given in satire videos like this:
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I feel like Lovecraft’s writing did not age too well.
Dawn of War rely isn’t something that could challenge Starcraft on Storywriting ground, even at its height with DoW 2 the story always took a back seat in that regard. If they bothered with it at all as seen in retribution.
Most of these franchises have a lot of crappy stories too tbh, warhammer especially has tons of books and lore tidbits people would rather forget about. Not to mention the medium Starcraft comes mainly from an RTS series, something that is already a niche product. Meanwhile you are comparing it to stuff that kicked of as TV shows and Movies reaching a far larger audience from the beginning.
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Yep. My sanity is not good now.
I’m disgusted with Blizzard’s mishandling of Starcraft’s story. I wanted to inspire people, to generate more interest in Starcraft’s storytelling potential. I wanted it to have just as much of a thriving creative community as something like Warhammer, Game of Thrones, or Voltron.
Yeah, and like Warcraft, it would be shredded by critics.
The positive bits make the bad parts stand out more.
I’m taking a break For a bit. I hate talking to you guys and being constantly browbeaten is taking a toll.
I’m a terrible person, thank you for reminding me. I want to gouge my eyes and jump off a bridge.
Well, I’m sorry, but you reap what you sow. When you go onto the forum for a specific game and proceed to mercilessly tear apart the game’s story, well beyond the point of rational or constructive criticism, then call the game’s fans stupid for liking the story, then you’re not likely to be treated with kindness, empathy or understanding.
Can you imagine how you would feel if someone started bashing your favorite sci-fi story, saying that everything you love about the story is actually terrible, and that you’re an idiot for unironically enjoying the story?
Remember the golden rule: Treat other people the way you’d like to be treated. If you want to be respected rather than brow-beaten by others, then show respect to others. It’s often as simple as that.
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Im not saying this applies to anyone here but this is true af.
Before the game came out my attitude was more “yeah the story’s not great, who cares, get over it, nothing’s perfect”. Live and let live. I cared about what fan campaigns people were going to produce instead.
But after arguing with fanboys whose golden cow is SC2 and all criticisms are treated as barbarians at the gates did I truly start to hate the story. Having a well thought out argument dismissed with “well, that’s just your opinion” and “nah, that’s subjective” is a cowardly & dishonest way of debating. We’re on a forum, of course it’s my opinion, doesn’t mean disregarding what I said like that just instantly invalidates it.
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Skehan says:
@Trick
People are busy playing RTSes instead of talking about them.
And you’d better behave or I’m gonna jailbreak and hurt your feelings.
Yeah? Well, you know, that’s just like uh… your opinion, man.
Edit: For clarity, I used italics to show what Skehan said but I also use it to show obviously sarcastic statements.
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