If something needs to be done about mutas, making them more viable in ZvZ definitely is not the case.
We are at a point already where ZvZ heavily hinges on mutas enough as it is, and every ZvZ becoming some sort of 2 or 3 base rush to mutas does not sound too healthy or enjoyable to me.
You have it completely backwards. Muta are easily at their strongest in ZvZ, not great in ZvT, and pretty horrible in ZvP.
LUL so basically make phoenix the only “viable” counter to mass mutas no longer a counter ? Have you seen how hard it is to survive to muta switch if you don’t have 5-10 RANGE UGPRADED phoenix ? Don’t suggest balance changes if you can’t see the sh*t you’re spewing.
It’s a viable counter with those changes, just takes skill. Right now a silver player can kill 20 mutas with 5 phoenix.
It’s not, protoss units are meant to be overly specialized. Other than killing mutas they are trash at killing anything in the game so stop it. Phoenix WAS designed to be an anti muta unit.
It’s too extreme a counter.
It’s not. If you don’t have 2 stargates already up you will just die to mutas. Even worse if you don’t have range you will die even more. Not too extreme, this unit is specialized and has no other role other than early killing overlords and antimutas.
It’s actually quite good at lifting hydras from the flank while the archon balls hits from the front.
They have more uses than just killing mutas. The can prevent a hydra-centric push from leaving base until critical mass, at which point the Coli and ht’s are out.
Protoss make phoenix without any mutas on the field or even a spire.
The only reason Mutas aren’t seen in ZvP is because specifically preventing muta play is a key element of every viable Protoss build.
This thread is “make Mutalisk OP, and nerf all the counter options”.
Yes, as a PREVENTIVE measure because if you don’t already have a SG or a few phoenix up, you are DEAD mate. Mutas can abuse archons so easily, not even going to mention how bad stalkers actually do against mutas without blink (oh and guess what you don’t get blink early on in PvZ)
The stargate is up for oracle.
It’s not that cut and dry. If all things are equal, the zerg will be behind in army strength but ahead in mobility. If the protoss can take a good fight he will win it and the mutas do have to come home thus solving the problem of how to get the mutas to fight your army. The mobility advantage is negated and the army strength advantage is magnified. Generally what protoss do is dump their bank into cannons and archons and attack and all things being equal the zerg should lose. If not, you should kill several bases and reset the zergs bank and army supply and you AT ALL COSTS make sure if you are going to lose the fight to recall and keep your archons and prism alive.
Most protoss lose to mutas due to other mistakes, like falling behind in the midgame somehow or losing all their high templar to mutas when the zerg went roach ravager into muta or hydra ling bane into muta (the zerg just runs them over with ground forces without storm).
Truthfully out of all the balance whine on this forum I’ve never seen anyone complaining about mutalisk. That is most likely because people never struggle against mutalisk play.
I’m not surprised people think Mutalisk is fine because nobody is scared of playing against them.
In my opinion it really takes your opponent being caught completely off guard with little anti air at a point in the game they shouldn’t be caught off guard.
If I was to complain about anything Zerg it would be the mutalisk. Pro gamers hide the spire because as soon as you see it, it’s already useless.
I mean, you just build mutas if the dude has no Stargate and you are almost always guaranteed a win or a lot of economical damage, to which you can follow with hydra bane pretty easily or roach bane ^^
Don’t forget to mention if they decide not to make stalkers or do any scouting.
That’s what I was going to say. Most players just set up some defense and push because the Zerg will have a pitiful army back home.
Only Playa…
You won’t have enough gas to build a sufficient army before the Toss rolls you. If he scouted it you’ll get next to no damage done and if he didn’t he can use the archons he has and warp in stalkers before getting ready to do a counter push.
so fast spire is a hard counter for 2 base- imortal all-in ?