wasn’t sure if I was right about this since I’m not 1v1 god, but I found this video by PiG in 2016 that confirms all my thoughts on Spire and Muta timings in LoTV, even how the 12 worker in LoTV removed the muta window in ZvT.
Things that weren’t addressed in PiG’s video which I want to voice:
Spores hit muta too hard in ZvZ. Holy god. Fighting roach/hydra with ling/bane/muta is hard enough, especially when you’re trying to beat the infestor or lurker window.
Thors are insane in LoTV. The ai targeting priority really hurt mutas. Mines and liberators are cool and fun to play against, but my god…Thors? An afk bronze terran can kill your mutas with current thor targeting priority. Back in the day thors prioritized ground first, and if they were manually ordered to shoot mutas, they would all attack the same mutalisk. Now it just auto one-shots your whole muta flock.
Phoenix lol. Nuff said. Archons and storms are already very strong ground counters. Phoenix and carriers are very strong. At the very least remove phoenix’s ability to shoot while moving and remove the range upgrade an replace it with an Acceleration upgrade, like the old flux vanes for voids in WoL.
nah youre right about the topic
especially regarding ZvT
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This might not be totally relevant to anything you’ve mentioned about Mutas needing help - I think they might - but I was just thinking about this because it happened to me a few times the last couple games…
One thing I find when I play TvZ is that Zerg seems to have plenty of opportunity to get a lot of work out of their Mutas, particularly in the early-mid game, but they aren’t aggressive enough.
Often the Zerg player will hit a really nice timing with eight or nine Mutas and catch me relatively off guard. I won’t have a Thor yet or my Thor will be out of place, and my mineral line will only have one or two Turrets at it. The Mutas come in and poke around a little bit, but seem to be completely deterred by one Turret, so they leave and effectively get nothing done. They have plenty of opportunity to kill both the Turret and many workers, but they don’t take it because they don’t want to lose one or two Mutas in the process.
I get that Mutas are weak and expensive, but I see a lot of wasted opportunities from Zerg players with their Muta timings because they’re too careful with them.
If a Terran player has all his workers repairing the only Turret at the mineral line while the Mutas are targeting the Turret, yes a few Mutas will die but the Turret will eventually fall and most of the SCVs will fall too. When Zerg players do commit to this harass, they usually do too much econ damage to me that I can’t revive and they win.
When they fly in, catch me completely off guard, but still retreat because they see a Turret or two, they end up wasting their Mutas because then I have my time to get my Thors out.
I mean you complain about everything ZVT, so is ANYONE surprised you agreed eith a guy complaining about ZVT?
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Mine is nerfed, Thor is nerfed, liberators nerfed, what else do they need nerfed for Mutas to be viable lol. The real problem is inject got nerfed and ended LBM because there isnt enough larvae to keep the playstyle going.
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2016 was 3 years ago. So many things have changed since then and you couldn’t even bother to link the video.
Is this a troll thread of some type?. No suggestions to buff the Mutalisk at all either.
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All the points from 2016 remain valid.
The suggestions are there.
Reduce Spore damage vs biological.
Revert thor priority to ground
Nerf phoenix. Remove firing while moving. Replace range upgrade with acceleration upgrade. This would allowed a skilled phoenix user to still smash mutalisks.
The only buff that the Mutalisk should get is that instead of going 9-3-1 with the bounce it should go 9-6-3 with the bounce.
That way it can be far more useful.
Mutalisks could also get a cost decrease from 100/100 to 100/75 or something like that.
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THis would work too.
I also considered leaving eveything as is, but make 2 mutas come from an egg, like lings. Egg would cost 200/200, this would allow zerg to make more lings and banes.
Perhaps a 200/200 Hive upgrade that reduces mutalisk egg to 150/150 late game.
The main issue seems to be resource and larva inefficiency.
Honestly roaches could use a 2 per egg upgrade at Hive too.
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no way no how do i want to see a muta buff. everything around muta play has already been nerfed in ZvT now you want more advantages. They already are good enough to keep terran players at bay while zerg just get more bases. it takes another 1 to 2 mins for terran to be able to move out once muta are in play. its worst if scouted late.
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That doesn’t happen if the terran plays properly. It’s like tic-tac-toe. If you make the right choices, as terran, after the zerg goes mutas, then you win. Mutas are bad in all matchups except ZvZ.
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Mutas are bad in ZvZ, because Spore Crawlers have twice the damage against them. TvZ, eehhh they’re OK for killing Workers and for scouting. PvZ they kick @ss because the only splashes that hit ‘em are Archons, which Mutas outrun easily, and Psi Storm, which (A) they can dodge, and (B) the enemy will hit themselves because of Mutas short range.
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you’re forgetting archons.
Sure, if you are a Stats that hunt Mutas with Speed-Prism loaded with two Archons. Are we speaking about real-world scenarios here or Unit-Tester theorycrafting or what can do a Stats/Zest/Hero…
True, true I’ll add ‘em in.
Archons should be a strong hard counter to muta. They are slow ground units with short range. If you’re losing muta to archons you shouldn’t be playing zerg period lol.
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There’s basically never a situation where a standard Protoss should ever be surprised by mutas. They have oracles and adepts and warp prisms zipping around every inch of your base every second of the game. They tag your tech and your army and there are a million signs that mutas are on the way. If a protoss plays correctly, he WILL see them coming with plenty of time to make phoenix, and everyone knows phoenix absolutely obliterate mutas.
And make it as upgrade. i dont understand why all zerg ground unit has 1-2 upgrades and no one flyer has anything. Give upgrade to Mutalisk in Spire as you said 9-6-3 (+1) and some HP more 10-20 and Muta will be enjoyable once again
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I’d just like to see more “zerg” in zerg.
Nerf infestors and brood lords. Make hive upgrades that reduce supply cost of roach and muta and make them spawn two per egg, perhaps even reduce cost of ling/roach/muta at hive.
I think they maybe should just cost a little less, like 100 minerals 75 gas, so we can get more of them out quickly enough before thors/phoenix come out in mass quantity. I still use mutalisks a lot though, they’re really not for straight up fighting, more as a tool for minor economic damage and drawing attention away.
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