I prefer to play the game at the most difficult level I can to where I lose about 50-50 of my games which is around Brutal+3 or +4, but playing the Hardest Prestige on B+1 wont do that for me. So regardless if I am playing the easiest or the hardest prestige on B+1 I will still be winning the majority of my games.
So with that said to call people scrubs for playing the easiest prestige is a bit dumb, because I think the difference in difficulty between the hardest and easiest prestige isnt great enough to cause much of an difference on a playerâs winrate in just brutal+1.
For Brutal+3 I would probably be fine with using a more difficult prestige, for Brutal+4 I would maybe perfer an easier prestige, but for just Brutal+1 it will pretty much have no affect at all in how often I win and so thereâs no reason to call someone a scrub about it because its generally too easy either way.
Yes i do. If you think thats bad play, you better hope you dont get teamed with me⌠I have annoyed enough stetmans to leave the game without a gg even though âweâ won sky high in record time.
I assume you are the kind of best buddy player who does not put any points in stetalite coodlown mastery either and thinks your crippled crap movement speed outside stetzones justifies you to deny your ally any bonus on his mineral line.
I will not explain myself any further, just know this: i HATE people like this. And if i can in any way, I will make them feel it when we play together.
Read the above⌠i donât have an explanation except being so bad, that they think having stetzones anywhere else that early is somehow preferable. Your typical âbestâ buddy in action.
bruh Stetzones only increases gathering speed by a tinie tiny bit in the first 3-5 minutes before they have 21 workers. Spreading Stetzones to your ally will only give them like an extra 25-50 minerals. If you getting an extra 25-50 minerals is so important to you maybe you should just lower down your difficulty instead because you arent ready for whatever you are currently playing at.
Well, I wonât get partnered with you, as I donât play on the random queue ever â I usually play solo. Iâm also not really a P2 Stetmann player, as explained in an earlier post. Too strong and in an uninteresting way. Iâve played it, and hell, come difficult mutations I might fall back on it, but itâs not my go-to. The next assumption was on point though: I donât go for Stetellite Cooldown mastery. It doesnât seem necessary.
Seems a bit extreme to hate someone over this though. Youâre losing out on very little. Pretty much anything else an ally can do will be more beneficial. Being able to provide you with HUGS for all early objectives/bonuses is vastly more beneficial than the extra unit or two you feel entitled to the player buying you with their resources.
Little bit more than that, depending. CtGâs excellent analysis is here:
For a commander with fast saturation, itâs 33â48 extra minerals. For a commander with a slow saturation, itâs 162â227 extra. So for some commanders itâs noticeable, but itâs not a huge deal compared to taking a few losses.
(I think ultimately this comes down to both Stetmann and non-Stetmann players making rational decisions, incidentally. Every player has to assume their ally wonât be as valuable as them. So non-Stetmann players might rationally assume that their Stetmann ally wonât spread Stetellites well, wonât switch to HUGS when needed and wonât Overcharge effectively. Some might never have even seen that done well! Whereas Stetmann players might rationally assume their ally isnât going to get enough value from 33â227 minerals to compensate for them not having Stetellites out around all the early objectives.)
âBruhâ, every bit of mineral, is worth gold that early on. That is why swann has a mastery than saves him âjustâ 90 minerals per has drone. Why would you spend 30 master points for that? Because its early game money!
And if you are any decent player, you have your expo coming up before you reach full saturation on your main. Meaning you can split your workers apart and get double the bonus from stetzones while both bases are not saturated yet.
It also allows you to go 3/gas earlier. That affects all your tech and ramp up time. Sometimes with stetzones i even skip full saturation in favor of faster tech because i know i am already very close to full saturation income with only 66% actual saturation.
And stetzones are not just for income. They provide map control and support. Without those you have no option to switch to heal mode to support your allies workers amd you have no option to get gary there fast.
With that move basically show a big middle finger to your ally and say âF you. I am playing as selfish as i canâ.
Any ally that complains about it like you probably isnt even going to be a good ally to begin with, if anything not spreading it to your ally and seeing how they react can be a good indication of how proficient of a player they really are because any decent player can absolutely get by without it only a noob needs its that badly. Brutal+1 and most brutations are far too easy to justify whining and acting like a baby when your ally chooses not to give you satellites.
Map control and support is exactly why Stetzones shouldnât generally be prioritised in your allyâs bases, they should be prioritised where the team need map control and support. Itâs unlikely youâll need to provide support there a) ever or at least b) until long after any-decent-player has saturated. The exceptions exist but are pretty rare.
Could you provide a specific example of which commander you might be playing, on which map, and what build youâre going for? Given your talk about it affecting all your tech and ramp-up Iâd be interested in getting some numbers / putting this in context.
I think this is a great point. Everyone has to know how to play their commander as-is, without Stetzones boosting their economy or Guardian Shell keeping them alive. And in fact, build orders get pretty deeply embedded. A good player will know what they can get out in the early game, and know what their toolkit is to get through the early objectives pretty much regardless of their ally. For Stetmann players, their toolkit for that involves having Stetzone coverage of where they and their ally need to be â which isnât the allyâs mineral line.
This is like the age old debate since before CtGâs analysis post, which persisted even afterwards.
For the lazy readers, the gain is ~60mineral/min if you have 2worker/patch. That means if you, for whatever reason, left your main at 14/21 the entire game⌠then after 10min of mining, youâll have gained ~600mineral more while having the FAST zone the entire time versus without zone (ie. unsaturated at 14/21).
This âgainâ between having zone versus not having zone drops dramatically as you saturate past 14/21 workers. At 18/21 workers, just 4 more workers, that difference is ~16mineral/min. And that seems to persist even if you do saturate to 21/21 workers.
What does all that mean??
Getting Stetelites to your ally takes 3-6 casts depending on mastery versus no mastery, generally on average takes 1.5min for most maps.
Getting to 14/21 workers takes on average ~30sec of game time.
As such, 1.5min - 30sec = 60sec of presumably continued worker production.
The likely worker count when Stetelite reaches ally is 17/21, (60/17 = 3.5 or 3 rounded down, then added to the 14/21 at 30sec).
From that 1.5min onward, while under FAST zone, each minute forward the ally gains about 16-17mineral per minute.
Okay⌠so some is still better than none right?
Yes, of course, every little bit can count for sure.
However, the gain isnât as significant as one thinks, much like Vespene Drones
There is also the courtesy to consider⌠as some feels thereâs not much you would have done with Stetelites anyway, whatâs 3-6 links, where exactly you going to go that you couldnât with Super Garyâs own zone anyway??
In the end, the debate continues with people essentially right on both sides. On the one side, the gain isn't that significant and frankly if you weren't paired with Stetmann, would you have not performed just fine without it? And on the other... er... other side, every bit of cooperative courtesy is nice gamesmanship. Without linking slightly further, you can still do well. If you can't as Stetmann's Super Gary, then this kind of optimization discussion shouldn't even be in your radar.
I personally always give Stetlite to teammates, not because of any numerical reasoning.
Teammates may or may not have the optimal # of workers at all time. For example, if any of them sent workers away to build things or scout or whatever, their mineral line would not be at its peak unless they build more workers. For experienced teammates, seeing Stetlite in their zone would inform them that they could operate with smaller # of workers. For inexperienced teammates, should they use fewer workers or forget to recall workers to mineral line, the zone would minimize their losses. In other words, I give them Stetlite so they have more more room for mistakes.
If my teammate happens to be a rude bastard who doesnât know better about Stetlite, giving them a speed zone would prevent them from making uncouth demands, at least on that end.
No seriously, stetalites for your ally is a bonus that you complete in the very first minutes in the game.
If someone dont then its not that bad either becouse the extra minerals are there but not that noticeable except for slow commanders that build drones/scv/probes slow.
I stay at it, you are clearly biased towards that prestige and curse everyone who plays it.
I donât share your selfish views. I have not played a ton of games as best buddy, but enough to know, that I havenât had a game EVER - where i could not have stetzones where i need them to be. Once you have super gary - which should be very early on if you are any good - you can get your offensive stetzones to wherever you like using âEâ. There is no f-ing excuse not to have them on your ally base AND expansion. Period.
If you are unable to use stetzones to do both, you should not be playing brutal let alone any with any +. Thatâs my view. Youâre welcome to disagree, but it will not change my mind. And i will not play nice with those kinds of allies.
Here is also a tip for you: maybe when playing best buddy, you should pick stetzone coodlown mastery, eh? Like a sensible person with a mind would instead of crying about not having enough stetzones to get to your allies base (like 5 is the MOST you need to get to your allies base, usually its just 3-4).
ZhaDOOM always end up insulting people when heâs in disagreement with them. This guy even insulted me when I gave him some suggestions.
But this time I am leaning towards his rationale with Swann. Swann is one of those COs which has slow ramp and every bit of ounce of resources count (early on). And I would welcome stetzones onto my resource lines (early on).
âI donât share your viewsâ There I fixed it for you. Stop insulting people jeeez, you can disagree without throwing insults.
