The new maps are awful. They are too big. Can’t get a decent fight going. Spending forever spreading creep. Has ruined the game imo.
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Gotta nerf the Zerg inconspicuously :^)
Joking aside, definitely agree, makes the games too long and turtly…
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That’s funny; bigger maps inherently favour zerg.
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In ZvT, yeah definitely. I think it’s a bit muddier in ZvP as Protoss has such a good lategame, and a bigger map makes getting to lategame easier.
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Not wrong; I’d generally argue that the mobility of Zerg benefits them more on big maps though, even against protoss.
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Zerg has the worst late game out of all three races. What do you mean bigger maps favor zerg? Even the entire pro meta outside of Serral is allinning off roach/ravager because you can’t win a late game fight with trash Tier 3 units. Which these maps severely nerf said strategy.
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Dont like any of the map in this season, plus having to play 6 out of 9 is ridiculous
How does it not favour Zerg? It’s longer for units to cross the map, making any timings significantly delayed. This isn’t as much of an issue for Zerg because the majority of their units are fast, and creep drastically boosts their speed while simultaneously giving huge swaths of vision.
Protoss at least get recall and warp-gate to help deal with the size, but for the most part the slower units that both Terran and Protoss have in comparison to Zerg generally benefits the Zerg more than the other two.
Eh? Have we been watching the same games? Most of it has been ling bane hydra/lurker into late-game 90% of the time, at least for TvZ. PvZ sure, maybe that’s the case, but definitely not for TvZ.
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Zerg only has a single fast ground unit, the Zergling. Every other unit is slower or the same speed as every Terran/Toss unit. Zerg units are so slow off creep most of the time its a one way trip any time you attack.
Creep improves vision and speed but now you have twice the ground to spread creep on which involves time and micro.
Protoss for example has defenders advantage everywhere on the map. They can warp in units literally into your main if they wanted too. Also with medivac boost, a large map and the 5:30 marine timing is pretty much the same even on these large maps.
Zerg is the only race that gets affected by a large map. Its more time and micro in every situation. Terran/Toss don’t care if they go into the late game and now even if they fail a timing attack it takes Zerg even longer to get across the map and counter attack.
Literal gold level insights.
Dude you must only be watching Serral or minor tournaments because no one but him plays late game anymore.
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There are a few fast Terran/Protoss units, but on average Zerg units are faster off creep, and they are definitely faster on creep.
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I like the variety of colors in the maps.
but currently the maps don’t feel good. maybe it’s the point that zerg is weaker early game and the 3 base is mostly spread out. but i can’t get my ecco started.
especially casual lvl turtle still present, pls remove SB and increase cannon cost ->200/50.
to break a 3-4 base T/P you need 6-7 base that you have to actively defend.
On paper Z should have an advantage, but the current game state does not fit, maybe if you belong to the 1%.
Both of those suggestions are absolutely ridiculous.
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I second that, the suggestions are no good
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what is your suggestion to make Turtle play less popular in low lvl?
i know one, and that is that the race that has to actively defend also has the strongest late game.
So that you don’t hide behind passive defense.
That is not really a problem, but the solution is generally to expand so that you can build up more quickly and afford to replenish your units faster.
Also, each race has tools that can surgically tear defenses apart if used correctly (Brood Lords, Lurkers, Vipers, Tempests, Tanks, Liberators, Disruptors, etc). At some point this is really just a L2P issue.
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interesting… which race can you play blint turtle against? Zerg. why zerg has no tools - no medie/ no warp/ no air units…
which race can’t play paassiv turtle? zerg. no range, vulnerable from several sides.
T/P play afk turtle = fair. Zerg plays 6+bases with active def.
is not a L2P prob is more a T- bias opinion.
Zerg can pick apart defensive players with Ravagers, Vipers, Brood Lords, Lurkers, Swarm Hosts, and occasionally Nydus Networks. Zerg has the tools to break a turtling player it’s just a matter of knowing how to use them.
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Plat terran answer: Zerg also has tools.
which he does not know. 80% are hive, which needs support from strong ecco.
Have fun zerg play 6+ base and be prepared for x possible follow ups from T/P.
Casual lvl don’t care. you can watch sc2 or smurf as zerg.
Out of the 6 that I listed, 1 is available at Hatchery tech, 3 are available at Lair, and while Lurkers have Hive upgrades, only Vipers and Brood Lords actually require a Hive.
Either way, the way that you deal with a turtling player is to out-expand them, and then use the suggested units to snipe/disable defenders or to target gaps in their defenses.
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Usually the only race that likes small maps is terran. That’s mainly because terran has the weakest mobility of all three races. They don’t have warp in or recall. They also don’t have speedlings or nydus. Protoss is kinda map size neutral because small maps favor terran in TvP but protoss in PvZ. Zerg on the other hand hates small maps in all matchups, including ZvZ. The maps have been small because they are tired of serral winning everything. But in the process they made TvP unplayable for protoss. Because this is a logical or operation, if the maps are small OR large protoss is disfavored no matter what.
The reason they are trying out large maps this patch is because toss has some new tools that help in that department (mothership, double recall, mass stasis) which means they might be ok on large maps in PvZ. This means protoss is pro large maps rather than map size neutral.
The map pool has been hyper terran favored for years at this point, all though the last couple pools have been improving in that regard. Every time a design choice surfaces, they’ve made it good for terran. The map pool has been utterly impossible to win ZvT on, and, again, this is just to nerf serral specifically. But they realized they took things too far and ruined the world cup finals because clem just clobbered serral and it wasn’t even close. The maps were the primary issue there.
So the new maps will be better for zerg and protoss, worse for terran, and generally best for protoss.
Speaking of Clem dominating Serral at the world cup finals, using liberator ghost, who was this gigachad who predicted this back in 2019?
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