You cannot have an economy like Zergs and have the harass potential of a Terran or Protoss, or isn’t going to happen. Mutas are fine.
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Wrong. There were two entire games with millions of games played that had strong mutas.
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I like how ya’ll are just comparing pro games with mutas in them against other pro games. They work fine on the ladder. Y u whining? Get muta upgrades and party hard?
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Well that was a different game then, now the way the economy works you cannot have mutas like you did then. The price we all paid for a 12 worker start and less minerals at our bases.
Mutas are balanced, they still see plenty of use, but they aren’t bonkers overpowered like they used to be. Obviously players that relied on Mutas being broken aren’t going to be as good now.
Players like Lilbow fell off the face of the earth when they raised Protoss skill floor in LotV, doesn’t mean we should want to go back to that kind of playstyle.
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As far as the TCF is concerned, 0.1% of games = “used enough” because they’ve got the muta exactly where they want it. Like I said, mutas are fantastic anti-harass tools so anytime you see a zerg being harassed ask yourself why isn’t he making mutas (hint: mutas suck). The evidence of mutas weaknesses isn’t evident only in the rare occasion that they are used, but in the myriad of situations where they should be used but aren’t.
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Mutas still are good, just make them yourself and reap the rewards.
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The rewards = free mmr for terran players
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Not to mention how long it takes to build the Spire. Only when rushing to T2/Spire/Mutas and don’t spend gas on anything else you can get lucky having Mutas out to shut down the Prism/Medivac. Medivacs carrying Marines are already laughing at Mutas on many maps. Prism’s protected by Archons having a fun time warping in more a-click friendly units. At this time, you are already begging to die because you have probably only few Spines/Lings/Queens out to fight on the ground.
People telling Mutas are okay, are probably Toss or Terran and hoping to get away from playing Mutas at any point in time until sc2 dies.
It’s always better to be the one who dictates the game and fighting Mutas means the Zerg can dictate it; Who likes to be ordained so why buff Mutas?
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Mutas were used in every single game of Dark vs Elazer in GSL vs. the world. They are good units, but they shouldn’t be an army of their own like rabiDrone wants.
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In only one game Dark massed Mutas but later than the here bespoke Muta plays to prevent harass. And ZvZ should validate the state of Mutas in PvZ and TvZ? 
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How does mutas being used in ZvZ make them viable in ZvT and ZvP? Flip the switch to turn your brain back on, please.
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Uh huh,if the Zerg is foolish enough to fight the Archons head on with his Muta ball 
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What some of us want is to be able to make mutas without having to commit as hard as we have to right not. I personally don’t think they need to beat phoenixes, or thors, or marines in direct engagement, I want a possibility to be able to better transition out of mutas.
I’m not advocating for buffing mutas to make them stronger, I’m more on the side of wanting a small cost reduction in the gas department to be able to actually afford some banes/roaches or transition out.
Changing muta gas cost to say 75 will not make suddenly huge number of mutas to appear because, even though the gas cost is lower, they are still gated by larvae and mineral cost, as normally a decent ground army needs to exist to be able to stop the opponent from outright killing you and in particular lingbane is very larvae heavy. Also, as I said many times before, a nerf somewhere else could be acceptable in exchange.
What I would like is to be able to make mutas in a higher number of games and see them more often in competitive. The games that they are seen in is a small minority compared to the slew of other things, and right now the culprit is definitely not “hydras being too strong” as since the nerfs to both upgrades and dps they have been toned down significantly.
Let me make some example. If mutas become 100/75, a flock of 10 mutas would cost 1200/950 with spire cost included. Those 250 gas saved can be used to make 6 more roaches or banelings and an infestation pit. If they were spent on more mutas (to make the flock stronger), 3 mutas would not change the engagements the flock of mutas can take in a considerable manner. Bear in mind that mutas do not come out at the 5 minute mark, but considerably later. Also, units that counter mutas are extremely binary in the fact that a critical mass of them (enough phoenixes or thors) will counter mutas extremely cost efficiently, in a way that a 33% increase in mutalisk mass would not require 33% more thors or phoenixes. The difference in thors or phoenixes needed to counter 10 or 13 mutas is minimal.
A change like this would not impact muta power in a substantial way but would make them more easily fit into builds. The idea is to not fall into a position where ending the game with mutas outright is buffed but rather to make them more seen and usable by making them fit better in the game. If you are worried that zerg winrate would become too high, nerf hydras or something.
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Shhhhh dont mention those games! They dont fit the narrative, they dont count!
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Zerg spends gas on mutas, only ling queen spine to defend
Toss spends gas on immortal archon, attacks zerg
ZeBron: how the heck do I get him to attack the archons?
And this is supposed to be an argument for why mutes are good? Lol even if you base trade just recall some archons xD
There are a lot of restrictions on how many you can make so mass mutalisk isn’t a threat. Right now their cost simply does not reflect their utility. They have basically zero utility for harassment due to being over countered by protoss and Terran and they also have very little use in direct engagements but they don’t contribute enough for their incredibly high price tag.
This relegates them to picking off reinforcements as well as shutting down harass, and that’s it. Anyone with a brain will tell you that spending a thousand gas just to be able to stop a few medevacs from Landing in your mineral lines is incredibly stupid when you could do the same exact thing with a few Zerglings and a spore crawler.
By far the biggest problem here is the fact that they don’t contribute substantially to a direct engagement as this is the biggest problem that zerg faces in the mid game against terran. You have to be able to defend certain timing attacks and you cannot do that with mutas and still come out ahead. You will always fall behind in either upgrades or economy and this used to be manageable in Heart of the Swarm because the mutas could make up the difference in harass but that isn’t the case anymore.
This could be solved in two ways, a cost reduction or a buff to the strength of the unit in order to make it better in a direct engagement. Obviously buffing the unit creates serious concerns about mass muta play, just from the sheer fact that for a given supply investment they will be more powerful and that’s a big problem because supply is one of the biggest impediments to massing a single unit and giving more value per Supply definitely screwes up that relationship. A cost reduction would not change that relationship.
A cost reduction will help with this because it will make it easier to squeeze out mutas while still being able to hold on to your 4th base and still being able to have reasonably timed upgrades. The threat of mass mutalisk is non-existent due to many factors so there shouldn’t be much concern about how a cost reduction would encourage mass muta play. The two biggest factors are the supply cost and splash damage from the opponent and both of these would remain unchanged and thus put the brakes on mass muta play.
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Can’t tell if you are playing dumb or if you are actually dumb.
When was the last time you used Archons to defend against Mutas outside of basetrading?HM?
Zerg can run circles aroudn the Archons and still do damage.
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scarlet has been stepping up her game this time around. her unit control and always attacking multiple angles have been on par. A true starcraft 2 vet.
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That’s not true thanks to the warp prism and blink-micro. I encourage you to watch the most recent stats vs serral:
8 mutas (1000 gas investment) kill 7 probes because they are chased down by a prism carrying archons while Stats gets his phoenix out. He didn’t have a stargate and was completely blindsided by the mutas. 7 probes = 7 x 50 = 350 minerals lost vs 1000 gas / 1000 minerals wasted by the zerg.