So Maru lost the whole series? Oh…wait…no…he repeatedly shut down lurkers and won the Finals…dw I’m sure Zerg is actually OP and none of your losses are your fault. You’re a whine Terran, you have to believe that you play the weakest race or you’d be forced to reconcile reality with your ego; and we both know that’s never going to happen. dw, I get you and I accept you. You are loved.
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Our Great Teacher Goba has dealt with terran psychology long ago. He teaches us that the delusion that they are playing the hard race and they are doing something special during game is just a banal coping mechanism for terrans.
Hence the ridiculous and preposterous terran nonsense that they have to play 10 times better than their counterparts, or they have weaker economy (a race that does SCV rushes and survives), or they have this or that handicap.
Only handicap that they have in between their ears where is nothing besides Deep Void.
The worst part is: The amount of whining that is produced can be convincing from the outside. Until I switched to Terran and played it on ladder, I still had that in the back of my head: This is the hard race.
It’s so different in experience though. You start every game WITH OPTIONS. It’s amazing. I can have like 5 different openings for each matchup, and they’re all viable. As Zerg I had: 16/18/17 into 3 hatch or Pool first cheese; then I get to pick: Banes or Roaches.
Terran has no idea how good they have it.
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It is true that T is the hardest race,but people think that it spplies to everyone. It is the racr with the highest skill ceiling, basically allowing yo to do fancy moves as long as you are good.However people think that you must play like Maru to barely win games. Yes,you have to split and the units are kinda weak,but its firepower its incredible, a good move can be game ending and you can do automated harass with libs or ghost/nuke. And overall,its ironically the race that has more TOOLS,mules,scan,repair,lifting buildings,depots,sensor tower,the worst thing it has is the meaningless scv being exposed during construction.
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Such a switch!
Spams against batz/whovian all the time, the moment Batz/whovian says something against Terran, this one sticks own lips to one’s bum with a second glue.
As the very same said:
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It’s great bonding Zerg and Protoss truth seekers. They definitely don’t turn right around and whine about the race after calling out terrans. xD
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Lurker viper is factional the dominant unit comp late game zvt. Quote where I call for nerfs unless you actually meant to respond to Haterstalker.
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Batz is a clown that is only 5% of the times right, Whovian is a serious poster with 70% rating of being right.
Sigh
Lurkers are overpowered. Just because you can beat them/win against them does not mean they aren’t overpowered.
By your logic, Broodlord Winfestor in WoL wasn’t overpowered because players could technically beat the combination in pro play and on ladder, even though it was insane how much work you had to put in to beat the combination.
The problem with the lurker isn’t that its strong, or that you can field a lot of them at once. It’s that its stats are overloaded.
It is one of the fastest ground units in the game, and takes almost no time to burrow/unburrow. It also has a lot of health as far as most standard units go, one of the highest HP pools of non-massive units. It does line splash, which, generally is objectively better than radial splash, and has no damage fall off.
Most of these things aren’t an issue. In fact, none of these things would be an issue, if it wasn’t for the fact that it is also a siege unit.
I don’t even have a problem with the movement speed of Lurkers. Simply that they are capable of burrowing as fast as mines with Drilling Claws.
No siege unit shdamaged puld be able to set up that quickly. Its specifically why the Tankivac was removed - because it was simply to abusive. It’s why tempests don’t do splash damage, since they have no setup time. It’s why tanks don’t benefit from Transformation servos, because catching them out of position would mean that they don’t get punished.
The reality is siege units cannot be all three: they can be mobile and have range, but then they cant do splash. They can do splash and have range, but then they can’t be mobile. They can be mobile and do splash, but then they can’t have the range that makes them a siege unit in the first place.
The lurker though? That has mobility, splash, and range. It has all three, and is by design fundamentally game-breaking. And it has more HP than a tank and costs 25 gas more (in total).
I’m not saying you remove the Movement speed upgrade, I’m saying that you remove their ability to set up literally instantly.
Hell, if you feel that makes them weak, then move their range upgrade to lair tech as compensation.
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Not true depends on the situation. As you can see in the clip line splash is not good against concave. Here, for example, the line splash of Colossus is more interesting.
Another point the efficient with comps like Zealot/ Archon/ Immortal none block the other (melee-short range- medi rang) that is perfect for lurkers. For units with range it is less efficient.
What you also forget lurker dmg is not instant like tank. you can dodge it.
compare the races, Zerg is the race whose defense is an engage. Because Zerg have less range on average.
Lurkers also have to come into the fight.
find it also nice that you only call the strengths. let’s forget that you need the hive for 2 upgrade. the lurker only ~9min come into play, mostly ~12+min. That upgrade also play a role.
And look at Widow Mine…early - late, aoe-burst, ground/air, solid range, doesn’t care if 0/0 or 3/3 hits, even only 1 real upgrade, burrow and forget → DH SC2 Masters 2021 Winter: Season Finals Commentator: “beautiful mine hits”… terran player didn’t even notice.
but yes only lurkers are critical…
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you have to believe that you play the weakest race or you’d be forced to reconcile reality with your ego
Yes you absolute dunce, the reason only terrans complain is because they want to protect their ego, because the countless 3.76 protosses who beat me while having half my APM after I beat a GM protoss are all way better than me, it’s my fault.
Your only justification for a unit that can obliterate armies within an instant, end the game with no counterplay after it gets in your base like we’ve seen so many times in GSL is that it got beaten once by a better bio army.
How is it fair to have yet another thing babyistting you as zerg when you already have queens, 10x the economy so 10x the army, queens and spores?
And you want to pretend maru has beaten serral more than the other way around?
You couldn’t be more objectively wrong just like your parents were to not use protection.
Fan units out. You can dodge their spines too
Quote where I said you called for nerfs there?
Yes, Viper Lurker is the primary late game ZvT comp…because those are Zerg’s viable T3 units…and they’re t2.5 units.
You’re right, the fact that they are regularly beaten and ZvT has fluctated from ~47%-53% for the last 2 years with no patches means they’re balanced. Again, just because you lose to them, doesn’t mean they’re OP.
Except it isn’t, because the win rates and the games and even the attitudes of actual pro Terrans about Zerg all reflect a balanced Meta.
At 3 supply a pop you can’t actually field a huge amount, and if you do they don’t have much support so they lose fights. Their stats are universally worse than the siege tank. Like, literally all of them, they’re also more expensive.
Lol. Yes, line splash is better…if your opponent decides to move command their units in a straight line over all your lurkers at once. You know what you can do against line splash? Ensure it hits one unit, you can even dodge it so it does 0 damage. You know what you can’t do against siege tanks? Any of that. It just hits.
That makes no sense.
Lol, I love this argument because it’s bullocks. It pretends that Lurkers are just siege tanks with no setup time. But they do less damage, cost more, require t3 tech upgrades, have no auto attack outside of siege, and have to be evolved from another unit making it take longer to build. Imagine if Siege tanks couldn’t be effective until you got 2 Reactor Core upgrades. Terrans would crap themselves universally.
So you want to remove Widow Mines right?
Except Pro level terrans have no issue against them and widely regard the matchup as balanced.
9/10 for effort
0/10 for content
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Yes, I was trying to change the topic from your crusade to end terran whining. Good luck with that, You could have made a thread about dukenukem complaining about ultras or something but instead the topic had to be believable.
Base movement speed (faster, even without the upgrade at 4.13 move speed off creep), siege up time (2 seconds without the upgrade (tanks take 2.5) and 0.7 with the upgrade), health (lurkers have 200hp to a tank’s 185) and base armour (even) supply cost (even) all beg to differ.
Oh, and they have no damage fall off like tanks do.
For 25 more gas you get a lot of stats that are better than the siege tank.
And yet people complain when Terrans go mech.
True, you can dodge spines in theory, but in practice its a lot more difficult to do, such that even pro players are rarely capable of doing so. In fact, I think the only game I have seen players actively dodging lurker spines in a fight was the one Maru vs Rogue game in the DH finals. I don’t think I have seen it before or since.
And again, lurkers don’t suffer from damage fall off the way tanks do (though I’m not suggesting that tanks should have damage fall off removed because that would be OP).
It makes perfect sense.
Yes. I know they take a little bit longer to build (individually anyway, but thats the beauty of zerg, you dont have to build units individually), and yes, I know they require T3 upgrades for full functionality, even though many zerg hit hive anywhere between 8-9 minutes into the game.
I noticed you conveniently forgot to respond to the fact that I suggested moving the range upgrade to lair tech to compensate for this (assuming adaptive talons is removed/adjusted to have the burrow time decrease removed).
What? One that is completely irrelevant to the current conversation, and two, the widow mine is not a siege unit since it doesnt have the neccessary range to be one, so therefore does doesn’t break the fundamental principles that siege units have. Additionally it fires once every 30 seconds, which makes it closer to a disruptor, bot because of firing time and because it doesnt benefit from standard upgrades due to being spell damage.
I freely admit that the mine itself has been problematic in the past though, even if its debatably not really one now.
*Clem and Maru have no issue against them. And maybe one or two others.
The other day Heromarine said Lurker was extremely broken.Uthermal also said he was a very disgusted by lurkers and disruptors.
Zergs have no choice but to trade. The power curve of the late game favors zerg for a bit then heavily swings into terran’s favor as they mass orbitals eventually having permanent free vision of the entire map at all times, bank energy on ghosts which can melt entire 10k armies in a split second as well as create a severe APM requirement disparity, and siege up so there are no holes in their defense. Basically you have to attack in and trade to keep him at about 150 supply until his existing bases run dry and he can’t replenish his forces. That’s not an option. Zerg MUST do that. All other strategies are void. Base-trades don’t work. There is no harass in the game that can get at terran’s economy. Even full-blown maxed frontal assaults can’t deny a base in most cases so their economy is completely untouchable. Literally the only thing you can do is charge lurkers in when he is out of position a bit, burrow them for a few moments, then pick up and leave before the ghosts arrive; rinsing and repeating for 10-20 minutes.
Frankly they need to do away with the first 10 minutes of the game. Nothing happens except some light prodding and expanding. The games are entirely decided by late game fights so why don’t we just start the game at the 5 base mark and save some time.
I freely admit that the Lurker itself has been problematic in the past though, even if its debatably not really one now.
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Going from being superglued to creep to being forced to trade for 10-20 minutes seems like an improvement to me.
As we watch games with singular lurkers denying mining… Must be because mutas are non-viable too…