the only way to beat a big zerg army with lurkers is going carriers and i think thats ridiculous.
all ground units die in 2 seconds, colos, immortals, archons and storm, doesnt matter.
and u are lucky if u obs dont die.
Have you heard of disruptors?
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Surround, flanking, multiprong, drops, nexus recall, mothership recall, time warp, everything skytoss, storms, immortals. What about protoss doesn’t counter the lurker? They lose because they f2 amove into a choke vs 20 lurkers and then wonder how they lost. Unsolvable skill issue – they won’t ever figure out how to beat lurkers because it requires hotkey mastery, hotkey mastery requires playing the game at 2x or 3x or 4x speed to manage multiple locations at once, and they just can’t do it.
Zerg needs a sky-lurker to do the same thing to skytoss that lurkers do to ground toss, which is to punish the sheer and unadulterated laziness that is the typical protoss game play.
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This is a joke, right?
PvZ is already very one-sided for Toss. And you want to make it even easier for toss.
100% correct statement.
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Zerg players are kinda pathetic.
OP is right. Lurkers are imbalanced vs P. And this is almost the sole reason why 99% on ladder are going carriers - the only unit capable of beating late game Z army. And then they come to internet crying “how imba protoss is”. So maybe nerf lurkers if you ever want to see something different than skytoss or adept all-in.
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Lurkers are overpowered vs Toss because without them you’d lose to a-move storm.
they only real way to beat mass lurkers is going mass carriers, no way u beating them with just ground units, because lurkers are op and do too much damage.
its ridiculous that the only way to win is going carriers.
immortals are not good enough vs MASS lurkers.
Storm helps, but storms dont do too much damage to lurkers so i try to kill hydras with them.
yeah, i can drop, but zerg can drop too or nydus lurkers in my base.
carriers are the only way, which is lame.
no, its ridiculous how strong they are.
i dont attack in choke points and still my ground army melts in 4 seconds.
the only way to win is going mass carriers, which is ridiculous.
Lurkers are clumped → storm them, flank them, multiprong them. Excluding the scenario where you f2 amove through a choke, there is no possible way to lose.
first of all, lurkers are not alone.
second, they are not always clumped, i play in master 2/1 and sometimes GMs, they are not stupid.
lurkers do too much damage, storm is not strong agains them and templars die ez.
if i only go ground army im dead most of the time.
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That’s where you are wrong, kiddo. Most gms are very stupid. Years ago, I beat code s players by taking a 14 hatch before overlord, and beat parting by doing 15 hatch before overlord. Only recently has 15 hatch become a part of the pro meta, so even most of the pro players are pretty dumb. They adapt so slowly it’s like watching cold tar run uphill in mid winter. They made such a big deal about it to. Something about the 15th and 16th drones mining slightly faster or something. Yeah turns out when people play video games professionally they tend not to be very smart because taking that route in life is a dumb choice right from the start. So the moment someone makes a big life decision and makes a bad choice you can infer their decision making process is fundamentally flawed somehow, and you can see that in their sc2 play because it took them years to figure out 15 hatch.
well, we can agree that a gm player is much better than a diamond player.
they micro better, they know how to attack and position better.
you know theres a reason protoss player go skytoss vs zerg late game.
its lurkers.
Gj you tickled them.
You would need 2.5 storms to kill a lurker. Thats 7.15 seconds ingame speed. Thats a lot of tickling. GL finding a zerg that will allow lurkers getting tickled for so long.
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By the way, the same people will fervently defend that sc2 is a strategy game. The biggest strategical revolution of 2024 was a slight change to opening build orders, and they call this a strategy game. It’s obvious they don’t even know what the word means. The people in the pro scene are not smart people.
I was just watching a zerg gm streamer and he’s rushed lair off his second 100 gas but was dying to a 2 rax reaper. He ended up gg’ing because the cost to rush lair and defend the reapers was too high, and he was behind in economy. He did fend off the reapers, but the terran hides behind a wall and the lings are now wasted supply. Well, there was an obvious win-con. Off a single gas you can nydus a reaper opener, and you do the nydus as you engage his reapers so that he doesn’t pay attention.
It used to be that the pro players and GMs were pretty smart. Idra for example went on to become a material scientist. LiquidSheth became a lawyer. Polt dominated WCS America while going to school in Texas. But everyone who was smart used their tournament winnings to pay for school. Only dummies play the game anymore and it’s absolutely crystal clear that that is the case when it took them years to figure out that 15 hatch is a superior build order.
They spam the same 2 or 3 standard builds on repeat like robots, and it begs the question of how they don’t get bored. I hop onto any GM terran’s stream, other than Ruff, and it’s a copy of Maru’s build doing the same 2 prong medivac harass and then pushing once they have 3 tanks. It’s the same unit comp, same opener, same parade push strategy that they’ve done on repeat for years and years. We’re talking 10’s of 1000’s of games played that are strategically identical. How is it even possible on a cognitive and personality level to tolerate that amount of repetition?
Jason for example is perhaps the perfect example of this. I play 1/4 as many games as he does, have the same mmr, and win by doing a 1 base swarmhost drop into the terran’s main. I quite literally elevator swarmhosts into the main of the terran, off 1 base, and burrow them and win. When was the last time 1 base was even tried at the pro level, let alone 1 base swarm hosts, let alone 1 base swarm host DROPS, let alone 1 base swarm host BURROW-drops. I can’t remember when. It’s been too long.
Their strategical understanding of the game is “survive to the 3 base mark then win with superior multitasking” and that’s it. That’s how pro level “strategy” works.
Perfect example: https://i.imgur.com/a4s6JT8.mp4
GM opponent who is camping on 1 base. Even so, he can’t defend the attack because it’s so out of meta that absolutely nobody does this. Strategical variety is dead in sc2 to the point grandmasters have no clue what to do if their opponent deviates from standard play. The basics of the game, like scouting, don’t even occur to them. They don’t think, “Hey this is a weird scenario, so I need to know what’s going on. Maybe I should scan the main?”
We see this in effect here in this thread too. Toss players are whining about lurkers. Meanwhile in reality, even photon cannons are better than lurkers:
https://i.imgur.com/kxZt93y.png
The strategical might of protoss is to balance whine about a unit so bad it’s worse than a cannon. There are 10 protoss units that trade better than lurkers and 7 that trade worse. That means if you made a unit comp of 3 unit types picked at random, you’d have a 63% chance of having a winning unit comp vs lurkers. You can have a GM level win-rate, vs lurkers, with a completely randomized unit comp. Lurkers are so bad you literally can’t lose to them unless you deliberately make the wrong units.
If you think surviving for 7 seconds is long just wait until you learn how long the average immortal survives.
Storms are strongest against targets that are stationary meaning the ideal use case of a storm is vs a lurker. It’s the basics of the game, my man, time to learn how to play. It’s been out for 15 years and people still don’t understand how storms work.
SC2 pro players calculating important life decisions be like:
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/XrENnU5l3hw
“1 in 183 million odds to win a premier tournament? Sounds like it’s time to spam some APM!”
Reminds me of mass phoenix in 2v2.
I literally invented in WoL against ling/hellion openings into gas feed muta, before +2 range (anion cannons) was implemented!
Still didnt’ cathc on much as I was top 10 in 2v2 in HoTS, since I went straight 3SG phoenix in 6 worker start.
Then the 12 worker start in LotV came, and people figured out 2SG phoenix openings and then everyone started massing phoenix.
Then mass phoenix entered the PvP meta.
Then phoenix openings even entered the PvT opening meta.
LOL
Well lurkers can’t attack you without first burrowing close to your army or you walking into them so you just need to avoid getting tickled by those lurkers for 7.15 seconds
lurkers dont tickle. they shred.
Yet somehow cannons are better than them:
https://i.imgur.com/kxZt93y.png
Lurkers trade at 116% efficiency meanwhile immortals trade at 258% efficiency, and you’re whining about the lurker? Just how shameless are protoss whiners?
Data is the bane of protoss whiners. No longer can they destroy the game for free wins. Everyone will see that it is a skill issue and a skill issue alone. Time to learn how to play. If you lose to a unit that trades worse than a photon cannon, it’s frankly time to hang up your boots and go play a game like farmville because it’s more your speed. You just aren’t good enough for starcraft. It is clear you don’t like starcraft because you’d rather whine about it than learn game basics like flanking. Seriously go play farmville.
Let’s install a special 1v1 ladder for protoss players where they face AI opponents, but don’t tell them they are facing AI players. Then we can all laugh in secret as they rage on the internet about how op lurkers are as they lose to the elite AI. Meanwhile the rest of us are playing real starcraft against real opponents. It’s a perfect solution.
I’ve actually been designing an ARM cloud to run AI bots to boost the playerbase for new RTS games. The game doesn’t have to simulate the graphics or anything so it’s entirely command line and optimized to run on a $15 arm chip. So you can drop $3,000 on an arm cluster and have 200 active players on your game at all times. Anytime someone queues, they instantly have an opponent to play against.
Why doesn’t SC2 have something like that? When an account is flagged as a protoss whiner, the system only matches them against AI accounts from then on so that the protoss can feel special and dominate their opponents with zero effort. Meanwhile they don’t terrorize other players with their balance whine 24/7 because they will be raging at AI accounts. It’s perfect. Use chat gpt to engage with them.
Since they are now playing on a separate ladder, you can even give them a custom 1v1 mod to play on where immortals trade at 500% efficiency. Won’t they figure out that it’s all a ruse, though? Nah. There is a 0.0% chance they will notice the difference. They can’t even figure out how to flank some lurkers so obviously they won’t notice the immortal got a 2x buff. You might even be able to get away with a 5x buff.
What do we do if they notice they aren’t playing real starcraft anymore? Put them back onto the real ladder and see if they start whining again. If so, back to the fake 1v1 ladder with immortals that trade at 1290% efficiency.
This is absolutely brilliant because it gives protoss whiners exactly what they want, which is utter domination with absolutely zero effort, but also prevents them from abusing real people while they play out these power tripping fantasies. It’s sheer, unadulterated, genius. Let’s call it “mmr prison”. We’re gonna throw protoss whiners in the slammer where they can’t hurt anyone else. Of course this won’t happen for starcraft, this game is toast, but future rts games just might have this feature. 
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Lurkers are brutal when you’re going or stuck in Protoss ground compositions to the point where it probably is a balance issue.
It used to be a lot more fair because you could catch Lurkers in their clunky burrow animations but you can’t really do that anymore with fast burrow.
There’s a few ways to fix this and most of them involve making protoss units not suck…or just removing that dumb fast burrow upgrade from the game since it’s a problem.
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toss players don’t even know how to do simple things like flank attacks.
A-move from one side = Lurker op.
How easy do toss players want the game to be? Auto scroller?
exactly nerf the last good unit of zerg too. so that we have 0 zerg.
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