Try playing Swann on defence and Karrax on offence with carriers. A few energisers on every entrance and speeded-up tanks will take care of everything on the ground with ease. Repair beam helps a lot too. And Swann, in return, gives extra gas to Karrax. Pure fun.
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I hate when people choose carriers as the offensive unit⌠its like the most noob thing ever and takes forever too especially on DoN, like seriously just get mass colossus/immortals/zealot man⌠come on⌠come on⌠for reals⌠DoN youâre fighting zombies dogg burn em with fire, lets gooo!
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Raynor is defensive commander. He just do that worse than Swann, but he can be defensive if needed. On this particular mutation durability of defense is more important than other things, so Karax relativness is far better comparing to swann and stukov than in usual case. If you canât def effectively you are just doing something wrong, Karax has nothing to do about it. I donât disagree that Karax is less effective in def than Swann in most cases but itâs not this case.
No. Carriers is the best option here. Why? They canât be attacked by most of the units on this map (including dt lurker banshee or antiground hybrids) and have no problem of disposing air dang units left (like viking or goliath) and is pretty durable (to survive dmg from inf marine and photon overcharge). So with good micro they clear map relatively fast comparing to other options that just risk getting killed. In pair with Swann Karax has access to virtually unlimited gas which makes carrier comp ramp-up far faster and thus even more stable way to win this map. Again. If you canât use carriers with swann ally effectively in this mutation itâs something about you, not a commander.
Main issue of Karax as def commander is cost efficiency - he suffer huge economical losses, and this if we forget that monolith cost 9 units of space - and now remember Zeratul monolith that somehow use only 4 units of space.
So definitely Karax could use a little buff to his def capabilities and good buff to army, but he is not bad as defensive commander.
Example: https://youtu.be/KyUkFLKmTvU
This could be much faster if my execution was better. I donât consider it a long run for this mutation sorry.
I think he just doesnât have any that stand out. Very vanilla. Thatâs true for all the first three commanders though. And his spider mines are godly on that map.
The issue with Carriers is that to get them before the game is almost over (one way or another), you must not be building anything else, so you rely on your ally to do almost all the defense (SoA wonât do much on DoN). And even then it is so late comparing to what other commanders would have by that time (first actual fighting unit at 11 minute! instead of at 4)
But Colossi are not quick to be made either.
Karax had extra gas from harv. drones, and Swann covering defense. With that boost, you can get to Carriers fairly quickly.
I still maintain that a Karax/Swann combo is usually less than ideal for most maps due to the increased time to Sally forth and start hitting objectives. They do have some abilities that compliment each other, but their core play style is defense with slow ramp up.
As for the argument of Karax defense vs Swann defense, the big key difference is versatility. Swann can counter early waves at a far cheaper cost (free if you refund). He can also defend certain objectives as well with his defense, then scrap and relocate them. He also has access to the mighty siege tank, a great defensive unit that can instantly be turned into a global offensive weapon with the HERC. Compared to the monolith, 1 tank can be relocated indefinitely on a map, while that monolith is a sunk cost in that one spot.
The fact of the matter is this, coop revolves around clearing the map fast. Even temple of the past favors clearing the enemy encampments. The high cost of Karaxâs units, combined with the higher cost of needing more structures to make solid defenses, usually means Karax is forced to choose one or the other, while Swann can do both.
At the end of the day however, they both have the same general theme of defense with slow ramp up. They both have different tools in there tool box that cater to different people, and each one will have certain things they can do better than the other. I still think Swann has more options, but itâs coop. Weâre all overpowered. Have fun.
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Map thats last 15 minutes and less is not the game at all. So no problem here. Especially on current brutation, about which i was talking and has shown example. Karax + Swann combo in general is very strong and certaintly is more fun to play than many combinations.
Karax and Swann not a good combo they both geared towards defense need a defense + offense commander combo. Karax or Swann and basically any hero based commander.
If you canât/donât want to learn to play Karax/Swann in full strength itâs not the best combo for you. If you and ally know your respective commander well, you will perform very good. The fact that they may complete map like 1-2 minutes slower maybe is not an argument in any way, again Iâm not talking about 15- minute games because they are not very spectacular by definition (for most commanders first 4 or 6 minutes is basically idle time even if you micro a bit with something) so in 15 minute game you actually play only 11-9 minutes which is very little time to get any satisfaction (ofc there are dehaka and some other but such game is not as fun for me even with a dehaka). Winning mission 1-2 minutes slower is not a losing a mission. After Swann+Karax has set their macro (which happens to them alot faster than when they are playing separated from each other) they walk over the map in not in any way weaker fashion than other commanders.
P.S. Swann performs perfectly as an offensive commander while he needs some little more time to ramp up than other offensive comms (which again reduced by Karax passives increasing production).
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You can very efficiently do this with a Karax/Swann combo.
Swann for me is actually an incredibly offensive commander. I use the 60% beam mastery and upgrade to both drill abilities literally ASAP. Both the drill beam and drill nuke 1 shot basically any attack wave, and the beam even kills crap in the back that you normally wouldnât be fighting until later. Combine these with mass hellbats and cyclones and I rarely find myself outdamaged. Thatâs without utilizing things like herc, tanks, or goliath. All while providing my ally with a lot of extra gas. Thors on the other hand I just cannot implement into gameplay. They are like Carriers, I just cant justify their cost and slow speed. Things like Tempests and Ultralisks and Battlecruisers with similar costs actually feel like their costs are more reasonable.
Swannâs and Karaxâs defenses are comparable, but their offenses are NOT, Karax is way behind in that department.
I think Karax needs something similar to Swannâs gas buff for both playerâs minerals. Chrono Wave is nice, but how much of it gets wasted because one or both of you doesnât have enough resources to compensate?
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I like Thor barrage to clear attack waves without using drill. Itâs fun to use on mist opportunities to spawn camp ground compositions, and itâll do damage much faster than hellbats. Tanks will probably do the same thing but better, though.
Honestly yeah Karax somehow getting a way to get protoss MULES or a special probe chrono boost to get minerals +15% faster for both players could be great. Say Khalai Ingenunity: Each returning worker brings back 6 minerals for every 5 theyâd normally bring using enhanced and more efficient cutting and regrowth procedures.
I donât get the point of him spending 30% more on a army if itâs going to be weaker than a 50 minerals Raynor army with Siege tanks and bunkers at home.
the AI did you a favor on the north entrance by killing a shield battery. when there is a little gap in the wall allowing them to access the cannons, the AI logic will bypass the batteries to do so. basically a kill zone
Yes, I noticed putting that shield battery in the middle was a mistake. I usually donât put it so the AI is lured to the center and destroyed by the Colossus, but we were taking so much damage I ended up filling all the holes I could. 
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Karax has a TON of economic buffs to allies already. More than any other CO by far. Plus giving Karax extra mineral income would be both A: trespassing on the best thing Raynor has going for him, and B: completely countering to the unit cost tax that Blizzard put on Karax on purpose.
If you want to talk about buffing Karax to have a mastery build similar to Swannâs laser build (which isnât that good TBH) then talk about adjusting his worthless Chrono-Wave mastery with a cost reduction on SoA upgrades. That would function in a very similar way to Swannâs Laser build. Especially when combined with his starting SoA energy mastery.
Karax defense isnât actually bad. Itâs well above average. Is it top 3? Ehh⌠maybe? Mengsk, Swann, and Zeratul are all contenders, and I think that it really depends on the context of the defense. But against infested, Karaxâs lack of AoE definitely makes him the weak link.
Itâs not that Karaxâs defense is outright bad. Itâs just that other commanders do it a little better. And in the case of DoN, Raynorâs ability to make a very large number of tanks actually makes him better than Karax too, but thatâs mostly just for infested.
- The fact that games <15 minute are not real games or that there is no satisfaction from them is just your opinion. I would say the faster you can do whatever you want/need to do, the better. Many games on ladder last 4-5 minutes and I am sure they are very satisfying for the winner. In co-op, on some maps you even donât have the option to do things slowly (like Part and parcel).
- Also, I never said anything about game <15 minutes. You had first fighting unit after 11 minute, first usable army (4 carriers) at 12:30. Until then you relied on your ally and it looked like you were doing nothing. If you tried to participate more actively, your army would be ready around 15-20 minute, when on many maps the game is already at least half done.
When I see Karax as partner, I expect him to defend (so I can focus on attacking), but if they seemingly do nothing only to have army ready for the last objective, I feel like I was soloing the map (esp. If I donât have any mechanical units that would benefit from the repair and they donât announce before using chrono wave). And I am sure other feel the same about me when they play, so thatâs why I donât really like playing him (except in CoD or OE) - This topic is about Karax being considered a defense specialist and how he is bad at that role. And you demonstrated that he can be good at offense if he has patient partner that does basically all the defense for him, because he is better at that - basically proving the OPâs point.
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âfairlyâ quick would probably be half as fast as fenix