Don’t agree with you, wouldn’t say it was an exploit.
Broodlings have been pushed to their limit.
Keeping Broodlings waves constantly active was one of the most micro intensive actions in the game, not many could do it (certainly not at your or my lvl).
like marine with stim…
Are we also talking about an exploit here? (don’t have to answer, I know your bias)
If any other unit had a method to bypass their maximum range; pretty much everyone on the forum would call it an exploit.
Broodlings were directly nerfed in two patches in a row in an attempt to mitigate this exploit, after players started abusing it in tournaments.
I disagree with that. The mechanic only requires you to a-click one of your own units every so often. Unless Tempests are involved, the Brood Lords will remain very safe.
actually Broodling have melee range and Bl get no range bonus, you miss the on-hit dmg from bl.
what about Carrier and Interceptor leash range when attacking rocks/ or other objects? is that also exploit?
only partially right. the first nerf was to stop mass broodlings, btw that was a nerf for top player and buff for casual zerg (speed buff).
the second nerf, is a nerf for all zerg because Bl is now a t3 banshee without clock and still slower.
I do not understand why zerg players openly approve CHEATING in the game (using exploits)
What is wrong with you zergs ? Do you really wanna cheat in the game and abuse mechanics which are unfair ?
like terrans dont abuse there mechanics. floating buildings away just to be clowns at the end of almost every game you play against them, just because they are sore losers. I mean if you really want to point fingers we can name a bunch of terran mechanics that get abused too and call it cheating just like you do.
Incorrect. Broodlords have 10.5 range. While the exploit was in the game (and subsequently removed), the exploit allowed them to target and fire broodlings at 12.5 range. It physically extended their range past what their maximum target range was. Hence, it was an bug that was being exploited constantly.
This is vastly different because the leash range of a carrier is 13, and interceptors can never go past that leash range. They can also target anything inside that 13 radius as long as they’re out.
But again, Interceptors and carriers can never target outside of their maximum range like broodlords could.
Why do you talk when you don’t understand the context?
Nobody is talking about this bug.
we’re talking about mass Broodling style, that was long after they had removed the bug.
true
So? The main strength of Brood Lords is their ability to zone enemy units out of range using the collision of their Broodlings, to prevent any kind of retaliation. If Brood Lords did not spawn Broodlings, their damage would need to be much higher (more than twice as much damage per hit, unless their attack rate was also sped up to compensate).
The ability to launch Broodlings out of range, and spawn waves of Broodlings indirectly were both problems that needed to be addressed.
No, Carriers since their inception in SC1 have always had a separate max range for interceptors. The range is 8 to launch, and either 12 or 14 leash range depending on the game version before they return to the Carrier. Interceptors cannot exceed these ranges under any conditions.
There are also two other important factors to consider regarding carriers & interceptors:
Forgive me Duke as I have sinned. h ttps://imgur.com/a/PjRz82M Rushing ultras is the winning 3v3 strategy.
but you are forgetting the points that broodling is also limited by its lifespan.
Interceptor attack air/ ground…
so your statement is → attack to create broodlings and allow these broodlings to attack is an exploit.
but attacking a rock with carrie to get all interceptors and max range is not an exploit.
on the other hand you also think Ghost(all round unit vs all stuff) is good design for RTS.
While that is true, broodlings were not intended to be spawned to attack targets further than the Brood Lords’ attack range. Hence, Broodlings received all of the following nerfs to weaken that exploit:
The patch notes for 5.0.11 directly mention this. The patch notes for 5.0.12 reference it with the phrase:
Continuing in the direction of the last balance update, further increasing Brood Lord mobility, while further reducing the strength of Broodlings to compensate.
That is not relevant.
Yes.
That can be exploited, but it doesn’t cause nearly the same problems. The 12 leash range is still in effect, and the Carriers cannot block enemy pathing to prevent counterattacks.
Not relevant, and also no.
Ghosts are currently “necessary” for balance, but not a good design. Steady-Targeting in particular can stack without penalty, which is problematic.
I would not argue that EMP is problematic even on the Ghost, but it would be easier to balance (or just stronger) on a more specialized caster like the Science Vessel.
still disagree it was not expolit. The changes just show that you don’t want game mechanics in the game. Like: siege tank medi; SB- immortal cheese; Mass SH etc. or would you call everything an exploit.
translated: we think banshee are great, so zerg should have some, but only after 12+ min, which have no clock and are still slower. at the same time we make sure that they have little influence in combat, unless you build 25+ (ground only attack)…
typical Terran blah blah blah…
WM is , Medi-boost, no-tank upgrade, Ghost, everything is necessary. Must not be changed.
Disruptor counter to bio. no this is not necessary for Terran players. therefore needs change.
etc…
very interesting that everything that makes the game easy for Terra is necessary. but things that are against Terran are bad design…
what does terran ability to lift off have to do with “exploits” ? Certain terran buildings can lift off and fly to different location mostly because of add-ons. But that is absolutely fine and INTENDED.
Extractor trick and brood lords leash range was an exploit therefore ‘cheating’ because it is not allowed in a RTS video game to
Your points are completely invalid.
If terran is an a-hole and lifts all of his buildings when they game is over simply build air units and kill those buildings. If you can’t, then the game is forced to a draw.
lol, and you dont think thats an exploit for terrans. the entire reason for the floating buildings was to move to diffent points on certain maps back in sc1 not to switch from add ons. secondly, supply depots were never meant to be gates, but terrans use them for that. them lowering was to allow you to keep from blocking your pathways in your bases, but some one got the bright idea to use them as gates and now its used specifically for that. thats an exploit all on its own.
you sit here and claim extractor trick and broodlord leash are cheating exploits, well guess what it was put into the game and it was intended, but you calling it a “cheat” because you feel it is, doesnt make it a cheat.
you really need to get off your high horse and stop crying about zerg.
Yes it was, and that is precisely why Broodlings were nerfed so hard to limit it. A fact you simply glossed over.
That quote came directly from Blizzard. The 5.0.12 patch.
The 5.0.11 patch makes my point even more strongly:
The duration of Broodlings is reduced to weaken the unit in engagements where there is nothing to quickly clear the Broodlings, as well as preventing the Zerg from continuously sending waves of Broodlings from a longer distance than the Brood Lord’s attack range.
LMAO
No, terran buildings in SC1 could lift off mostly because of add-ons. Science facility had two add-ons:
Do you know the definition of “exploit” ? It’s a term describing certain ability or function which is NOT intended in a game (therefore considered a bug) which is abused in a program to give unfair advantage. Maybe next time get some better education before you start giving pointless arguments.
The float mechanic may have been added for the “cool” factor for Barracks and Engineering Bays (which could lift-off in SC1), but the feature was required for structures with Add-ons. That is why all structures with add-ons have the ability.
The problem is that add-ons require a free 2x2 square next to the structure, so if there isn’t enough space for any reason then you need to be able to lift up the structure and place it somewhere else.
That is absolutely untrue. You have to be either lying or outrageously ignorant to claim as much.
SC1 Supply Depots do not have the ability to raise or lower. Instead, SC1 Terran players use a combination of supply depots and a Barracks to make walls, with the Barracks serving as the gate. This ability for both Terran and Protoss to make walls against Zerg is absolutely crucial for the balance of the game because of the way Zerg functions.
SC2 Supply Depots were explicitly given the ability to raise and lower to serve as gates, so that Terran players don’t have to halt production on a barracks and lift/lower it over and over again. Contrary to your claim, the ONLY reason why Supply Depots can raise and lower is to serve as gates.
you all seem to be forgetting the campain maps back in sc1 for terran. you litterally had to hopscotch your entire base few of them. that is why they even had the float mechanic in the first place, it was not to switch up on add on.
your supply depot knowledge is terrible. no it was not so that terrans had gates, in sc1 there were too many problems with terrans clogging up there bases with supply depots and having a hard time getting around in there own base. When sc2 was made they gave supply depots the ability to be lowered to prevent this. It was never intended to be a gate for the terrans, just simply a way to keep you all from having a base of supply depots blocking everything.
and yes, i have played sc1 and still to this day have my original sc1 and brood war disc.
again we can sit here and say the same things about terran as you guys want to sit and spew out about zerg, and we can say a hell of a lot more about terran.
The very existence of Add-ons requires Terran to be able to move the structures that use them. The mechanic may have been used in the campaign (rarely, there was only one map that actually used it), but it was also necessary to be able to place add-ons. Otherwise, a Factory or Starport that happened to be placed too close to the left of a building or wall could not be upgraded.
That “issue” can be entirely avoided by learning how to sim-city properly. This is something everyone has to learn to do eventually, and it is not unique to StarCraft, nor is it unique to the Terran faction within StarCraft. Just about every faction in just about every RTS that allows you to place structures freely requires you to learn about the space that individual structures take up, and how to place those structures so that units can move between them. Knowing how and when to wall is also important for many RTS games.
“Gates” were a common feature of StarCraft I when StarCraft II was in development. The developers knew about them, and they explicitly chose to give Terran the ability to raise & lower supply depots as gates. If space was really the issue, there was no need to give Terran the ability to raise supply depots at all. They could just be constructed in the lowered position and that would be the end of it.
Anyway, you want proof. Here is an early development video from Blizzard regarding supply depot gates. Just skip to about 7:50 and watch:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1bQuMnMqKY
And so you can put them anywhere without blocking pathing, ie. fill the whole middle of your base with them.
This is absolutely not the case - see the original 2008 demo’s opening, and the 2010 one at 7m 30s.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgxnGcUvqdI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1bQuMnMqKY&t=7m30s
Edit: Oh, well, that’s unfortunate timing.