Immortals are actually pretty bad

I have thought about this a lot and while I think Immortals have a place, I don’t think people recognize just how many shortcomings immortals have.

The biggest one their damage against light targets. Everyone knows that Immortals have great DPS vs armored but if you do the math for their dps vs light, they are one of the lowest DPS cost per units in the game.

Don’t believe me? Two stalkers do more dps to light targets than 1 immortal. And the 2 stalkers actually cost a little less than an immortal to boot. Plus the stalkers are much faster and can get blink. The immortal is a clunky liability in many situations and needs, at minimum, force fields to not get jumped on. And usually needs a prism as well.

Now if you have an immortal with a prism the math gets even more fuzzy. Now you are paying, on average 5 supply, 400 minerals and 100 gas for each immortal if you get two immortal and a warp prism. For 375 minerals, 150 gas and 6 supply you can get 3 blink stalkers that do over 50% MORE damage to light targets than the immortal. But you probably think that two immortals in a prism blow 6 stalkers out of the water in DPS to armored targets right? Actually its only 20% more dps.

Now there are a few things that you could argue in favor of the immortal here.

  1. Obviously with the example above the immortal is still much more supply and cost efficient versus armored targets
  2. Immortals have shield.
  3. Immortals are a single strong unit which has a lot of advantages. E.g. If it lives longer then it outputs more damage than blink stalkers that get focused down one at a time. Plus better against AOE. Its the same reason you cant look JUST at cost per DPS for things like Stalkers vs. Marines.

But the worst thing about the immortal is that it costs valuable robotics facility production time. So its laughably low dps/cost to unarmored targets, complete reliance on a warp prism or at least force fields to keep it alive, and it being produced from the robo facility make it have a pretty short shelf life.

What do I mean by short shelf life? Well, it just doesn’t compete in the late game. Immortals are bad vs bio in TvP generally. Splash damage is much more effective vs Terran and Zerg, especially late game which comes from the other robo units. Immortals are a great fighting unit to get if you know your opponent is going roach heavy or (not that this happens too much) Marauder heavy. But its shelf life is limited because 1. If you over build immortals you wont have splash from your robo and worse, your opponent can easily build a comp to stomp immortals (e.g. morphing roaches into ravager and swapping to ling bane rav). Theory crafting with Immortals doesn’t work past the mid game. Yeah they beat thors… but are going to get stomped by the rest of the supporting army because of their mobility. Decent against tanks in the mid game in low numbers. Against zerg, any decent Zerg completely switches out of roaches after their first max out, if not before. And then almost the entire tech tree other than roaches hard counter immortals.

So what is better than immortals? Well I already think immortals are not too great against Terran usually. They are slow and clunky, get owned by marines, and even if you get a warp prism, the Terran has a lot of tools to shoot your WP down. Against Zerg they are standard to be built versus roaches. Good with shield WP or shield batteries. But still very very vulnerable if left alone or without a warp prism. So I think Archons are better in many cases. They have bonus damage vs the units you would want to use immortals against (roaches). They are actually almost as fast as Stalkers. They are very tanky. Dont cost much total resources than an immortal (but are gas heavy). Can be build from Templar so you can get use out of the templar first and do not use robo production. Plus immortals do splash, plus they are good against unarmored units too.

TL;DR: Immortals are a limited mid game unit. And IMO get outshined by Archons as WP juggled or even front line units in PvZ in many situations. In PvT both are not as useful.

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Dude, what? Immortals are one of the best units in the game.

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Not really, when you take into account its cost and production, it’s a mediocre unit. It in no way feels immortal, queens feel way more immortal than immortals do lol.

The immortal is the typical protoss unit that you make, and you pray to God that your enemy decided to build mostly the 1-2 units they’re decent against.

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Immortals are fantastic…

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yes i don’t believe you
Stalkers attack every 1.34 seconds
while Immortals are 1.04 seconds

Also Immortals never overkill,their projectile is instant,something very rare for a protoss unit to have

Inmortals are really good,one of the few really strong protoss units,combine them with archons and you will have a really hard composition with tons of HP.If inmortals were bad, they wouldnt be used and massed in every pvp and pvz.

They’re one of the best units to mass, that isn’t the same as it being overall great.

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Who is massing immortals in PvZ? Or PvP for that matter? Chargelot Archon STOMPS Immortals.

PvZ I can see but if you get to the late game on relatively even terms with 10 immortals, get ready to get face stomped. Great against roaches. Mediocre if not awful against everything else.

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The immortal is possibly the best non-terran fighting unit in the game.

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The do damage,they can receive a lot of damage,they are pretty inmortal.

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They are highly situational. Vs Terran you can’t build them and vs Zerg they are useful but in limited fashion. Unfortunately vs Zerg with the way the matchup goes protoss is dependent on them but immortals I think only have a good reputation because the rest of protoss is so lousy. For reference a single maruader does something like 80% the dps of an immortal.

Again immortals only look good compared to the rest of the protoss army. Compared to a siege tank or a lurker or something else within it’s tier on the other side, you can clearly see that for it’s cost it’s at best ok.

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I fully agree.

The fact that they’re the only ranged unit protoss can mass that isn’t crap makes it look better than it is.

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Yes and stalkers do 13 damage each to non armored while an immortal does 20. So overall 2 stalkers DPS is 2x 9.7 = 19.4 versus non armored and an immortal dps against non armored is 19.2.

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Why do you guys say that Immortals can’t be built vs Terran players?

If Code S protoss players do it then why can’t anyone else?

And I’m not even talking about vs Mech. It’s done vs bio as well.

It is the most important fighting unit in PvZ and in PvP it will dominate most situations

Immortals are very, very good units. They are so good they could be a Terran unit and it would fit right in.

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Yes Protoss players build Immortals in PvT. BEFORE they have a robotics support bay. Because they need fighting units. Immortals aren’t going to save you, splash damage is.

Anyway, since the analogy of stalkers isn’t convincing people, what about marauders?

3 Marauders cost 300 Min, 75 gas to the 275 min 100gas for an immortal (slightly favoring Marauders here since same total resources but less gas heavy for marauders)

3 marauders do a whopping… 42.3 dps with stim against unarmored targets. That’s right, not a typo. They more than double the 19.2 dps of the immortal.

But what about against armored targets? They do 84.6 dps. That is to the immortal’s 48.1. That’s right, even if its two marauders they still do more than a single immortal: 56.4. I honestly didn’t even believe the numbers myself when I first looked at them.

But you could say well the immortal is more tanky… but is it? We just saw for the same resources you can get 3 marauders. That is 3X135HP = 405 total HP. Compared to 200hp/100shields for the immortal. Not to mention that its all HP with the same 1 armor as the Immortal. So their effective total HP could be even higher. Yes immortal has shield but at best you get 100 out of that. And often much less. On top of this, Marauders can heal. Not to mention will scale better with upgrades.

I would do the math to figure out if 3 stimmed marauders beat an Immortal 3v1 but I am afraid of the answer. I’ll let someone else unit test that one. If that is true, then the only possible thing I can see going for the Immortal at all is that it is more supply efficient (im sure it beats two stimmed marauders handily). And even that is debatable depending on the situation.

Either way the marauder has so much more utility. We already see the DPS per cost is insanely disproportionate. With stim they are actually very mobile and on top of that have more than double the dps per cost against light units while stimmed. And still a lot more even without stim. Plus they can slow units. This is another reason marauders are actually pretty good against banes and even lings (or at least a lot better than immortals).

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Well Terran units are ridiculously strong in general, and the race is OP. Just because the Immortal isnt as good as Terran’s best units, doesn’t mean it’s a pretty bad unit though (unless you want to describe all non-terran units as pretty bad units). 3 maruaders will beat a single immortal but as the unit count grows a critical mass of immortals will delete marauders…not like it matters anyway since a real game is not monobattles.

Among Zerg and Protoss units, the Immortal is possibly the best combat unit there is.

I think people has sum it up quite nicely.
Immortal when you actually see its cost and supply is actually pretty average, but comparing Immortal to other Protoss units? Yeah, they are at least a league up.

And, people think Immortal are good because 2 Immortal + Warp Prism juggle, which mostly happen against roach timings, which… happens… at least once in a tournament.
They are flashy units, dealing 50 huge damage in one attack against armored, which makes them memorizeable.
That doesn’t mean they are that good, cmon. Nobody builds them in PvT after they have colossus.
In PvZ they act as a buffer for your archons, but can also be used to fight if Zerg is going for some armored unit comp.
In PvP, they are madlads, considering Protoss units that are good in PvP are armored.

If you think Immortals are bad then, you’re REALLY in denial. Absolutely unreal.

Nobody thinks they are bad Velitey. Everyone agree they are good, but everyone just overestimate how good Immortal is.

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Actually, cost-for-cost they are very, very good.

Their drawback is that they are hard to make because of the bottlenecked robo production.