Fellow playera It is wise to foucus on a few heros in each topic, so we can detail more about them.
I shall focus on Mengsk, Abatur and Fenix
FENIX
Any form of health regeneration. His carriers should get the ability to heal other units.
ABATUR
Make his leviathans and brutalisks late game and more powerfull. To evolve a brutalisk or Leviaghan, the units will now be required to gain 700% more biomass. But their health and damage shold be increased by 250%.
Improve his early game, by allowing him to produce more queens early. The early game will be balanced because the queens aren’t super powerfull, yet they are very usefull because they can heal.
MENGSK
First of all his early game should be buffed. Let him start with 2 or even 3 bunkers, that is his Strength, that is his unique power. Increase his mandate generation.
As a defensive hero, his command center should be able to upgrade to the defensive type. Just make that change, it is time for some terran hero to have it in CO OP.
Give the imperial intercessors (medivacs) an ability to heal mechanical.
Late game units like Pride of Augustgrad should cost less gas.
Thank you fellow players. Post your ideas here, and lets improve the CO OP for good !
Fenix I disagree with because his army and lore ain’t about preservation, hell he even has “avenge protocol”!! If anything increase out of combat shield generation…
Abathur: Feels drastic to me. If anything buff his army and nerf his brutalisk…in slighter numbers.
Mengsk: no, if anything he has to much mandate regen… Just be safer with your troopers .
Only thing I agree on is the CC to PF, feels Mengsk like.
6 no, get a bunker, turn troopers to civilian, mass repair, reverse back minus 5…
7 no… Cause the gass is the only thing that MAKES it a lategame to begin with…
Also 3 rank 3 cruisers wreck everything already…
I am glad we both agree, that the Mengsk’s command center shold be able to upgrade to the defencive type, but i disagree that troopers can repair in combat. They might repair a bunker in a small fight, but when the hybrids come with their constant AOE, the workers are dead and there is zero repair for the battlecruisers, zero repair for the thors. All troopers have very low HP, and they have to move near the target to repair. You have to reduce 50 % of your army damage, by converting them to workers. The intercessors SHOULD be able to heal mechanical. And Mengs needs at least 2 starting bunkers to be able to start normaly 1 is just too slow.
No. This would make Karax literally obsolete, as his Carriers do that already.
Sooo you murder his early game to “buff” his late game? Do you even understand balance?
Queens aren’t meant to be powerful. You can already double pump them. They’re meant to be supporters, not front-liners. Do you even understand how Abathur works?
While I would be okay with him being able to have 2 bunkers… I think I’d rather have the mastery let him start with 40 Mandate instead of 50.
No. It’s fine where it is now.
??? Have you even touched Mengsk? He is by no means defensive. He’s an offensive commander with defensive options. Planetary Fortresses should be Swann’s thing, not Mengsk’s.
Completely moot when you have access to Laborers and Troopers in the field at any given time. All you need is one supply bunker built nearby.
Royal Guard in general should cost a bit less. This is the only point you’ve made that I can agree with.
I do undestand early game, and i know that Abatur can solo Syth of Amon in 5 minutes with his 6 mobs. Is that a ,BALANCE’’ for you. I am not saying that Abatur shold be nerfed, i am saying that his early game iss to much. Move his power to the late game instead.
Mengsk units are extremely fragile, and gas reduction of royal guard alone (UNLESS HUGE GAS REDUCTION OF 80% In that case I totaly agree with you) will not be enaugh.
He Is a defencive hero, even Blizzard told you that in the description. He got a bunker ability FFS. He IS a defencive hero. Swann got a lazer, and 50 types of turrets and upgrades. The command center upgrade for defence shold belong to Mengsk.
Requiring 800 biomass to make one Leviathan or Brutalisk is way too much to ask. By the time you get one, you might as well not even evolve the units in the first place, with how much power that much biomass would give.
80% is too much. Royal Guards are not meant to be massed units. They’re meant to be low number, army backbone units (except for the Aegis Guard.) Maybe we can start at 20% and work our way from there.
" Mengsk can put immediate pressure on his enemies and cement his power in the early game. " -Blizzard
He’s an offensive commander. I’d rather have Mengsk capable of double producing units from his Enlistment Centers than have them turn into Planetary Fortresses.
Correction, blizzard thinks he is an offensive commander (edit: nope, it’s just you). But he big time isn’t.
He has a siege anti-air unit in addition to elite siege tanks
he has topbar that generates far less when he is on the move and when he is fighting (and thus losing units),
his defense structure generates supply
he has as many structure upgrades as Karax
he has the ability to build defenses with his combat units (and you are kidding yourself if you think building bunkers while attacking is anything other than a terrible idea)
his static defense has the highest hp density in the game (tied with Zeratul) and the highest dps density in the game by a landslide (that’s without any trooper weapons)
his SCVs repair bunkers at 30 hp/second each, significantly higher than any other heal in the game (except Raynor repairing a barracks)
his soldiers can become workers on a whim, and vice versa
he calls down his workers anywhere on the battlefield
he has a literal topbar to summon permanent static defense for free
he can repurpose any defensive structure by changing what troopers are in it.
How can you possibly justify the position that he isn’t a defensive commander? He’s possibly the ULTIMATE defensive commander.
And also, in the same quote you used, blizzard claimed he had a good early game and fast ramp up time, when in fact he has a mediocre early game at best and probably the worst ramp up time in co-op. I don’t care what blizzard imagined for Mengsk to be like, this is what he is like. And unless they want to rebuild the commander from scratch, this is what they have to work with.
With perfect map knowledge and decent control and maxed mastery and good conditions, yeah he can do pretty well (5 minute solo seems pushing it though, would probably need ally help to get it that quick), Speedrunning is fine if it requires the players to be good.
“I’m not saying abathur should be nerfed, but we should make his early game garbage and his strongest units nigh-inaccessible” Make up your mind.
I agree queens could use some buffs though, possibly instant transfuse rather than rapid transfuse, and make their damage/tags the same as in VS.
I feel like carriers should get a buff, but not to the point where mass carriers beats out his other builds. I’d be ok if clolarian got repair interceptors instead of interdictors (and of course tactical data web changed to affect heal rate)
Imo, it would be nice to have fenix’s champion upgrades on the purifier console rather than twilight/robo bay/fleet beacon. The tech buildings are pressed for their research times while the purifier console is sitting there doing nothing 90% of the game.
Change royal guard cost mastery to be baseline, and replace with a new mastery that reduces cost of CCs. -5 minerals per point, max -150.
You missed the most important part ,Mengsk is a DEFENSIVE COMMANDER, that can … so on and so forth’’
Let me show it tou you again, just in case you had ,forgotten’'.
Alright… I haven’t use Abat*hur for a long long time, but from what I understand is that the Biomass Harvester LVL 1 talent upgrade allows Abathur’s units to gain increased life, attack speed, and energy regeneration by collecting Biomass, which is gated by a maximum of 100 biomass. Now, if Abathur’s units are required to gain 800 biomass for Ultimate Evolution. Does that mean BH’s cap is also reset to 800, and Biotic Leech to 800%? If so, why should the player ever trigger UE to get a Brutalisks/Leviathan, while they can have a super 800 biomass stacked unit, which is almost unkillable in the first place?
units heal themselves for 800% of the damage they deal per stack of Biomass they possess. OMG
Another thing for the 800 biomass nonsense is - assuming BH and BL are still indeed capped with 100 biomass, won’t that force the player to waste 700 biomass to trigger a long-waited UE, while he/she can decide to spend them on other units?
Not to mention the 50% chance from Biomass Recovery, when you lose almost >100 biomass…
You may want to patch the drop rate of biomass with these changes, but increasing the amount of biomass dropped eventually means you just did nothing. (You can split the drop rate however to make this somehow possible, but still - wasted)
Lastly, with 800 biomass changes, you can almost be guaranteed every Ababy player will be forced to use full 30/30 Enemy Drops Double Biomass Chance mastery.
Especially with -
OK, RIP Symbiote Ability Improvement Mastery
*Not to mention, 100% biomass muta/host/wtho units are really strong.
Seriously -
I feel sorry by doing this, but I think I have the right to do so, in this case.
You are missing the point here. The goal is to find a way to balance the early game of Abatur, while NOT NERFING him (which would be too easy and useless).
The goal is to reduce the brutalisk and Leviathan usage, by putting other units like the queens into play. Do you think that Blizzard developers can.t find a way to balance the nubers of the biomass properly ? No talant will be lost here, they can buff the simbiot as well, and the play will still have choise of talants. THe point is to make the game more interesting.
Ehhh… the thing is most people don’t play like elite Abathurs. Just because you have a handful of people who know exactly how to place toxic nests vs each race on each map doesn’t make it extremely broken. It’s a very small percentage of people who make Abathurs early game look OP. Most of the time when I’m paired with an Abathur they use toxic nests as creep spread or never bother using luring and just happen to get a brutalisk after 5-10 minutes.
I wouldn’t go nerfing (or “balancing”) his early game as hard as you are suggesting.
You neither balancing Abat*h (for god’s sake)-ur nor nerfing him, you are destroying him. What you’ve come up with is literally deleting the existence of UE.
No, this is to delete the Brutalisk and Leviathan.
You can’t replace a Brutalisk/Leviathan with Queens, given by the firepower and how cost-effective the units from UE are.
I believe that I haven’t mention Blizzard developers at all in my last review.
I can sue you for defamation
And you’re not a Blizzard developer
This entire suggestion/fixes/argument is irresponsible for an OP to said. IMO
Finaly someone who is trying to put out some value by using his creativity. The salty argument seekers went crazy today. Thanks man, lets see if there are more people with some ideas.
Alright, if you want to bring back the focus to the commander’s possible changes -
Abathur
Ultimate Evolution changes:
Ultimate Evolution now requires the player to have a Lair.
Symbiote from Brutalisk and Leviathan now requires the player to have a Hive.
Units morphed from Ultimate Evolution now receives Unending Reconstitution passive. This allows these units to release 5 biomass per every 45 seconds.
Brutalisk changes:
Total hp decreased from 1500 to 1000.
Brutalize weapon damage decreased from 30 to 20.
Ferocious Spew weapon damage decreased from 50 to 30.
Leviathan changes:
Total hp decreased from 1000 to 850.
Tentacles weapon damage decreased from 20 to 10.
Bile Swarm weapon damage decreased from 9 (+6 vs massive) to 6 (+8 vs massive).
Bile Swarm weapon attack is modified with (x6 attacks), instead of (x4 attacks).
Biotic Leech changes:
Added another effect, allows Brutalisk and Leviathan to heal themselves for 20% of the damage and receives 30% attack speed increase for 10 seconds, when units nearby just obtained biomass.
Each attack from Brutalisk and Leviathan reduce Unending Reconstitution cooldown by 0.2 seconds.
Swarm Queen changes:
The cost of vespene gas of this unit is increased to 75 from 50.
Swarm Queen benefits with the Symbiote talent. Each Swarm Queen can be accompanied by 1Symbiote.
Each Symbiote abilities from Swarm Queen are decreased to 25% of Symbiote original damage/damage absorb amount.
Symbiote, Create Toxic Tumor and Rapid Transfusion is still usable while the unit is burrowed.
Rapid Transfusion heals a friendly biological/mechanical unit or building for 30 health over 3 seconds. The healing amount has been increased by 5.
Create Creep Tumor ability changed to Create Toxic Tumor, Toxic Tumor functions the same way as the Creep Tumor but stored with 2 passive effects.
Toxic Nests within Toxic Tumor’ generated creep area is even more likely to be revived after used.
Toxic Tumor functions as Toxic Nests with 25% of its original damage and 100% of its Virulent Nests original effect.
Each Toxic Tumor can also create a single additional Toxic Tumor.
Toxic Tumor have a 5 seconds warm-up timer in order to functions as Toxic Nests.
Evolution Chamber Upgrade Cache changes:
Abathur no longer requires Incubation Chamber research to enable hatcheries, lairs, and hives, to mutate two swarm queens at once.
Incubation Chamber upgrade has been changed to Adrenal injection, increase attack speed by 15% for enemy units attacked by Symbiote and units which received Carapace shielding.
Bio-Mechanical Transfusion upgrade has been changed to Bulimia Symbiosis, increase the damage/damage absorption amount of Symbiote by 5% with each 50 energy used from Swarm Queen. This effect lasts for 10 seconds and can be stacked up to 2 times.
Ideas are meant to be discussed. If you put out an idea, you’d better have good justification/defense for why it would benefit the game (more it more complex, make it feel more satisfying, make it more balanced, whatever).
The +700% biomass thing is absolutely absurd, to the point where basically nothing could compensate for that massive lack of power in the first 12 minutes. It would delete one of abathur’s main features, as well as the mastery and strategies associated with them. Doesn’t matter how good they are if you can’t get them in any decent time
.