What are you trying to say? You quoted me saying that P3 does less damage than P0 against ground and then proceed to say "actually no, P2 does not do more damage than P3, because … " 
In theory and in ideal conditions, P2 does a lot of damage. But killing lots of weak units is usually not an issue (Psionic shift is just amazing) and then you need to kill the big targets and/or structures and that takes longer with P2 than P0, because the lightning does not hit buildings and leaping strike does 50% damage and removes all fury stacks even if there are no targets for the lightning.
Just check how much longer it takes to destroy a void sliver with P2 compared to P0 (or P3, for that matter). And killing big targets like this is where I spend most of the time, not with cleaning masses of weak enemies, so the speed at which I can kill those is what is the most important imo.
And stacking fury seems somewhat unreliable, it looks like not every attack adds fury stack. Not to mention the somewhat inconvenience having to attack omega worm for a while before engaging enemy (and hoping ally waits for me lol).
Also the weak Immobilization wave is huge. Normally I start every attack by Immo wave, which no longer kills most of the forces. And I cannot clear mines with Immo wave, so against Minesweeper this is very weak.
And I had issue with Mutating Carapace - it degenerates too quickly imo (probably at the same speed as with other prestiges, but it’s generated 50% slower), so autoattack cannot keep it up even when she is not being hit.
Sure, against air the prestige is better than P0 but that’s what hydralisks are great against. On the other hand the biggest threat to my army seems to be disruptors and reavers. With P2 it takes longer to kill them compared to P0 (due to weaker psionic shift) and the stun is not that effective against them as it does not stop the purification nova or scarab from decimating my hydras.
Maybe when playing mass muta P2 is superior, but I just prefer using hydras 
But despite me being convinced that P2 is weaker than P0, I think it’s more fun, so I like playing that when I don’t need to tryhard.
As for P3, it’s simple: Crushing grip is trash. It does 50% less damage to fewer targets and for 50% more energy compared to psionic shift. Sure, it can hit air, but I usually hit like 3 air units and for such pitiful DoT that it’s irrelevant. The only good think is the stun, but P2 is clearly better at that.
I admit that I don’t really count the additional resources from assimilation aura, because I don’t like to rely on that, and also without Kerrigan tanking in the front I would think that army die faster so the additional resources might just only compensate for that.
So I would say
P0>P2>>>>P3>P1
*in terms of strength, exceptions may apply 
I like P3 more because it has more utility.
It does equally well against buildings, air and ground. Its crushing grip can act as pseudo detection.
I wish P2 Kerrigan have a bright spark flash effect when fury stack fully charged.
I sometimes can’t tell she is properly charged in the thick of the battle.
I think it can go for both. I’m a guy who pays more attention to sight than sound.
Wow. Your computer must hate Stetmann and Stukov.
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The ball of flying electricity around gets notably brighter - but whether or not I notice it, it’s not good to be staring at one of your own units in the midst of battle.
I rely more on the sound-queue when she gets to full stack - kinda like a sudden gust of wind, which is unlike other unit movement/attack sounds.
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My take on P2 vs P3 - as long as I don’t get a swarmy composition, I prefer P3. Especially coz of the effect of Crushing Grip on boss units. Using CG just as a wave drops AND having your army there is pure gold. Like a mini immo wave.
P2 is great for your “first” attack into an enemy wave, but sitting around charging up stacks without chaining psionic shifts/leaping strikes while taking hits with 50% less carapace regen doesn’t do her any good. Only works well if you keep kiting away the smaller units and stay away from big hitters. Which is where I think it lacks sustainability. (Yeah, I know the “pros” can do that easily and constantly.) P2 definitely feels more like it relies on army with Kerri, than P3 even though P3 is the one generating extra resources for army.
My issue with Kinetic Blast is that it’s not strong enough. In the campaign, KB is double the damage of Leaping Strike. In co-op, it’s the same. Crushing grip costs too much energy, so also requires army around to fully kill each gripped group, so you can tackle the next group while CG is on cooldown.
Me too, but when you’re at 15 FPS max, you start relying on sound queues.
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For those who feel P2 isn’t good at destroying structures.
I would check your choice of mastery first. P2 differs greatly in its play style from P0 and P3. The very idea of 1/2 ability damage should indicate that your mastery should focus on Kerrigan’s attack damage over energy regen.
So for structure damage, all you’re doing is letting Kerrigan sit there and attack. And here’s the comparison:
- With energy mastery, Kerrigan regen 9.75 energy/sec or every 4.1sec per Leap Strike (against structure). That is 390dmg (with mastery) / 4.1sec = 95DPS. This assumes your cast reaction is so precise that you don’t miss even a millisecond, which is unlikely but let’s just say you do and we assume a maximum here of 95dps.
- With damage mastery, Kerrigan does 70damage per 1.15sec, this attack speed increases to a further 50% with Fury. So the new attack speed is 1.15/1.5 = 0.77sec. DPS is then 70 / 0.76 = 91DPS.
So what do all that mean? It means under even the most ideal conditions, a P0 Kerrigan with the correct mastery can deal about 4 extra dps than a P2 Kerrigan that just sits there A-moving.
And on the note of Immobilization Wave. It’s true that 300 immo is obviously better than 150 immo. Here’s a tool to look at who survives and lives:
https://starcraft2coop.com/tools/masterybreakpoints.
You’ll note the difference is very little to the units that moves from “survive” to “1-shot”. That small sub group dies easily to 1 P2 Stun.
I’m not trying to convince people to “use use use P2”. It’s just that game mechanic is game mechanic. The facts remain P2 does better than P0 by a long shot. Your own personal bad choices or skill that led to poor gameplay is evidence that P0 is better.
Also, as an obvious side point… Kerrigan also has an army that is unchanged. Why anyone isn’t pushing down structures with army but chooses to Kerrigan alone then make a point about how slow it is seems… idk lol.
I get it’s fun to play solo Kerri but yeah…
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Yep, and… hm, so your calculations aren’t using a Leaping Strike when fully stacked, right? I think I had single target damage at about 90% of P0’s, if you use stacked Folly strikes periodically. That’s how I prefer to fight, because 90% still isn’t much less, and you get to wipe out entire bases as an aside to your single target damage.
And as to this stuff about “but P0 Kerrigan is better against Slivers” … really, people? Who’s relying on the hero for single target objective damage outside of early OE trains (which P2 Kerrigan uniquely demolishes)? Getting that extra 4% damage against Slivers on a single unit is worth even less when it’s actually your Hydras bursting down those Slivers in the first place.
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Yes, that’s right. I purposefully ignored some small bits of actions on both sides. Like how P0 can get a few attacks in while P2 can get abilities in.
The reason being is that the post was long enough and the final results don’t change. I’m glad you pointed it out for people though thanks.
Point is P2 Kerrigan structural damage is almost on par to P0, and people really should have the full information to make their choice, instead of others misleading them with “their story”.
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And the P0 Kerrigan cannot autoattack between the leaps? That’s additional 52 DPS
I’ve said above that both I purposefully ignored some damage in the calculation, but since you’re such guy for detail… here it is (even though I have no idea where you got the 52 DPS from - I see, I’ve changed it.):
Without Attack Damage mastery (since you are using P0, the correct investment should be in Energy mastery):
- Kerrigan does 40 damage per 0.76 attack cooldown or 52DPS. This adds to your 95DPS using Leap Strike (since versus structure) to a total 147DPS.
Without energy mastery, the P2 Kerrigan’s Leap Strike is as follows:
- Since it halves the dmage, 390 damage is now 195 damage. The energy regen is also different since no mastery, so that’s 7.5 energy per second. In 40 energy cost of Leap Strike that’s 5.3sec. So the added Leap Strike DPS is 195/5.3 = 36.8 DPS added. New net total of P2 is 127.8DPS. (This is not changed @someone because both P0 and P2 would take the same build up time. Leaving this comment just to please you.)
So there ya go, P2 actually does 20 less structural damage than P0. Again, I figured people like you can figure out the difference is small enough that one can basically say “for all intents and purposes, they are the same”. So given that they are, why would you go for P0?
you have no idea where I got 52 DPS?
that is 40 damage per 0.77 sec (5 stacks of Fury and maxed out attack speed & ability damage mastery - the same that you assumed for P2) so your 26.7 DPS is wrong
and calculation for P2 is also wrong because each use of leaping strike removes fury so the overall attack speed would be lower
Okay, I changed some of the calculations that I’ve missed. You’re right that I made some errors.
Just to clarify, there’s no “twisting” lol. It’s math and I’m not a genius mathematician. Just some guy who did some calculations. And the findings I shared.
While the initial calculation was wrong, the point still stands. Nobody here is mandating YOU or trying to convince YOU to change from P0. So take your poor attitude somewhere else please. You are welcome to feel that 20 extra DPS against structures is worth the 1200 damage of Fury-stun. To put that into perspective, for any 1000HP structure, it takes you 6.8sec at 147DPS vs 7.9sec at 127DPS to kill it - a one second difference). However, please remember that other people read the forum too. And the intention of the entire discussion is to shed some nerdy technical data.
So please stop derailing it 
You yourself said that you “purposefuly ignored” some “small bits”
You corrected the P0 calculation, but still kept the “91 autoattack DPS + leaping strike for P2” which is not possible.
I am not sure what the average number of fury stacks would be, but with 3 the autoattack DPS of p2 with the said masteries would be 79
with average of 2 stacks - 73
Either way the difference is more than 20 DPS.
And it’s not just that versus (theoretical) 1200 damage of furystun - with P2 you also lose damage on psionic shift and immo wave which is how you deal with masses of enemies.
With P2 you need more army than P0. They can take the advantage of the stun that P0 does not have, but despite that they can still easily die as you need to pay more attention to Kerrigan to make sure she does not die.
I kill the first 2-3 slivers or void thrashers without any hydralisks so it’s pretty important to me how good she is at it.
Or whether I need 1 vs 2 leaping strikes to destroy a photon cannon.
You are probably right about the trains, though.
Yes because it’s a long post (not because I want to “twist it” my guy lmao), and the added math in our later discussion show the point stands - the DPS difference isn’t massive against structure. However, the DPS versus units for P2 compared to P0 is, in fact, very massive.
I’m not above more mistakes in later calculations. So it is possible the difference is more than 20DPS.
It’s not theoretical, it does do that much damage. The “theory” part when I alluded to it is that when your targets within something like 10 range is less than ~5, then the selection can no longer full select for the full 1200 damage.
Bottom line is this @someone.
- Even if the calculation DPS was 200 P0 vs 100 P2 (which it isn’t LMFAO). This would mean that as a lonely Kerri you kill structure twice as fast. Great.
- 1200 Fury Stun damage is very real. The speed at which it clears enemies is far faster than P0. This is both proven by data, as well as many gameplay. Simply do some search on YouTube, you’ll see it. Of course that requires you learning.
- Nobody’s telling you to play P2 or the world is ending. So what’s with the hostility and furthermore what is there to prove? If you truly wanted to prove it, simply upload your replay. Just as I am asking you to learn, I am not above learning something new, as I am sure neither is anyone else reading this.
- Just because you don’t know how to make P2 work, it doesn’t mean others can’t. So why are you so hardcore against me sharing these information? To go as crazy as “you twist everything”. Chill guy.
How would you call it when you include buffs and mastery (or autoattack for that matter) in the calculations for the prestige you want to prove is better and omit it for the other? That has nothing to do with being genius mathematician. Also you started with numbers and calculations so not being good at math is not the argument I would choose.
I removed the part about “twisting” (which was a reaction to you yourself admiting that you purposefully ignored some bits - and I didn’t write “everything” so you twist my words as well, while using quotation marks) from my post before your reply was posted. But you seem to enjoy conflict. You complain about hostility or somebody being against you, yet you are the one who started with bad attitude and insulting other people, by either saying that whoever has different opinion is bad at the game, laughing at others(’ arguments), or basically telling me that while I am allowed to have my opinion, I shall not share it with with others and I should leave this forum.
I wrote that the calculations were missing autoattack for P0 while saying nothing about/to you and you responded by insulting and labelling me. And now you complain about attitude.
Anyway, as for the subject:
It is theoretical, because it assumes there is no overkill, there is enough enemy units (=at least 12 as stack #5 hits up to 12 unique targets) and you have 5 stacks of Fury. Of course no overkill means that instead of few dead enemies you have lots of wounded which I think is generally the worse option.
But okay.
In that case, what is the maximum number of units that can be hit by Psionic shift? 10? 20? Even more? Let’s say 10. I always start a fight against a ground wave by doing 3x psionic shift, after which I need to wait for energy (but most units are usually dead by then).
That is 10x130x3=3900 damage for P0 vs 10x65x3+1200 = 3150 for P2 if you continue making psionic shifts without fury stacks or 10x65+1200 = 1850 if you continue to autoattack until you get 5 stacks again while your army is dying to that 3 disruptors or tanks that weren’t killed by the initial lightning.
After that it’s mostly single target vs hybrids and similar tanky units and P0 is better at that too.
Also as a bonus Psionic shift hits burrowed and cloaked targets without detection, fury zap does not.
Btw if you want to move to and/or destroy a different priority target during a fight (eg. another photon cannon, siege tank or spine crawler or a hybrid Dominator), do you use leaping strike even without fury stacks, or do you keep autoattacking whatever is closest until 5 stacks, or do you walk to your target? (That’s not a troll question, I would really like to know, as I am not 100% sure myself what is better)
I like sometimes to use abilities to move around faster, or to avoid some heavy hits, like Plasma Blast from Hybrid Dominator, but what if you don’t want to lose Fury stacks at that moment?
Or I use Immobilization wave. How many targets does it hit? Potentially A LOT (for example an entire wave + half of nearby base + all burrowed mines in a huge area), and it’s 200 vs 100 times that number. In practice that would be more like 164 vs 50 as I tend to put 19 points in Immo wave mastery and I don’t think I would want to put points in there with P2, also because I think you need more army with P2, as I mentioned.
This obviously changes against pure air wave, where P2 is better without any doubt, I don’t dispute that. But I still think that even then (when it really would be 1200 damage against an enemy wave vs more dmg vs structure or single ground targets) P0 is better, but I admit that I might be wrong about that)
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You’ve said nothing of value here, except to argue for the sake of arguing. What I’m saying is that debating about the small inaccuracies is pointless. If my numbers were way off then simply post your own with better analysis.
Just keep playing P0 and let others decide with the information. Stop derailing it all just to prove your pride.
What value does your post have?
And yes you numbers were way off (some by 45%) as I pointed out and I did post my numbers, but you just decided to dismiss everything and proceeded to trade insults instead.
And please explain to me why are my posts and opinions and numbers “derailing it all”, while yours (some of which I proved to be incorrect) are supposed to be useful information.
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Fair enough, to each their own. One thing though: playing P2, I wouldn’t use multiple Leaping Strikes against a Photon Cannon. I’d only use one, the one to jump over to it, and then build up Fury auto-attacking it before Leaping to the next one. I almost never use another ability before I’m fully stacked, and this allows P2 to wreck entire bases far faster than P0 could.
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