How do you have fun with zeratul?

If you are a fan of this commander… sorry, but I despise him. To give some background, I like commanders like mensk or stet, who have challenging (by coop standards) macro and micro to play them to their max potential. Usually, I prefer the commanders without hero units, but if the hero unit is more of a supplement to their armies than an actual army in itself (Zagara, Alarak… who are my favorite commanders, oddly enough), that is also fine.

That said, I can usually find ways to enjoy all of the commanders, usually by trying to run less-optimal compositions (like all types of units for fenix/stukov) or by turning off auto-cast (hello nova)… but with zeratul, I just can’t.

Forgetting about the bollocks that is his tesseract build, his macro is simplified toss’ macro, with all the upgrades ties to the artifact mini-game, which at this point for me is just a chore instead of an actual challenge. Expansions can be cleared with the pocket void rays, and everything feels so easy.

His army is so A-move heavy… the only micro I see there is the sentries, dark templars and zeratul himself, but even that is limited. Most of his units have damage mitigating abilities (predictive blink, back to the shadows) and even the disruptor, which I really wanted to not be autocast, is autocast.

Is there anyway to have a challenge with zeratul that is not just soloing maps faster, or is this basically it? If I’m missing something, then please point that out, otherwise, hit with the nerf bat until he is as dead as he is in the campaign. (I.e. manual cast disruptors, a deeper artifact minigame)

1 Like

Let have less skilled players some easy commanders like Zeratul to play with. Not everyone is ambitious to master difficult commanders, some just want to play and feel strong in co-op and Zera is best for this scenario. He is simplified to extreme, but I dont see it as a problem. I use him sometimes too, when Im lazy to do mutations with other commanders (I mainly play Nova, Dehaka, Alarak and Fenix).

11 Likes

I tried him for the cannon push build, but even that’s more boring than using cannons together with Spear with Karax. Sometimes you should just accept that a commander is just not for you, and that’s fine.

4 Likes

His stalkers are fun to use, though really easy.

Probably the only commander that mass stalker is viable on.

1 Like

Alaraks with mass slayers is very strong too.

3 Likes

Mass Havocs are also pretty busted.

I get the idea of easier commanders, but there should be a challenging option. Being able to turn auto cast off for his disruptors would already be a huge improvement for me, as I love the micro for that unit when I play ladder toss. Nova being a good example of this… I find her to be a much easier commander, but if you turn auto cast off on a lot of her units, then she gets much harder.

In terms of the minigame, I think i could have been done better. I wish there were ambient constructs for each unit you had to capture that unlock that unit for production, kind of like finding all the diamondbacks on the train WoL campaign mission. Probes would be unlocked, and you would fine stalkers in your main, and sentries at your expo… everything else would be scattered around the map.

I doubt that the revamp for zeratul will fix any issues for me, but I hope I can at least enjoy playing him.

1 Like

I’ll have to give them another try.

Zeratul and Tychus are for the people that have less skill with RTS.

Keep in mind that every person’s money is just as green, and it is in everybody’s best interest to have the most people playing. If only the Grandmasters could play Starcraft, there would be no Starcraft.

5 Likes

Well you can always do the following:

  1. Chrono your ally’s structures as appropriate instead of use it for yourself or leave it on their main all game.
  2. Make more Nexi for non-Protoss allies since you’ll have plenty of mineral overflow.
  3. Clear rock/expansion for them first.
  4. Don’t use the lame go-to’s, by that I mean Zoraya Legion voidrays, Tesseract Monoliths, and Avatar of Essence (lessens, orange). Seems every other day I see someone complain about Zeratul, then they use the best meta build.
  5. Always try to push solo despite the above regardless of ally’s skill.
  6. Compliment your ally’s army if they aren’t the stagnant type.

These are basically ways to have fun with any commander. The only difference being some of the specifics on here. Understand, the premise here is you don’t compromise standard map completion time (whatever that is for you to judge). If you can still do that and not enjoy the commander, then simply don’t play him/her.

1 Like

Already done this friend. Its something that I do with all commanders. For me it’s less about map completion time, and more of: “did I use my arsenal in the most optimal manner”. But yeah, I do believe that it is unfortunately time to throw zeratul to the bone yard.

1 Like

That’s unfortunate indeed :slight_smile:. Glad to hear you are coop’ing though, that’s awesome always.

In what world is mass Slayers or Vorazun Stalkers not viable, they’re boring and easy sure, but they’re definitely more than viable.

Last time I tried that on Vorazun I got run over, but it’s been awhile and I may need to give it another spin.

It’d be a heck of a lot more interesting than Void Ray spam, though I prefer Corsair / Oracle.

I suspect that you and many others are underestimating the difficulty that the very micro-macro that you seek presents. For example, rockslapping is actually more effective then the alternative despite just how ineffective it is. Believe it or not the campaigns, even on hard and sometimes brutal are substantially easier as they make it far easier to switch between micro/macro at your leisure, or save/reload.

That said, even as one of those people I still agree. Zeratul does not need to be any more difficult to play viably but viable should not be the same as optimal or there’s very little room for skill growth. Further it feels unfair to have equal or greater power for less speed/skill.

And OH GAWD those “experienced player” recommendations are totally off. Zeratul, Nova, etc should be “recommended for players who prefer straightforward base management”, Zagara, Mengsk, Stettman should be “recommended for players who adapt quickly”.

1 Like

I completely agree. I think I know why the experienced player tag is how it is… the commanders that are for new players tend to mirror the campaign factions the closest, and if you think about tanis’, kerrigan and raynor, that is pretty true. Same with abathur. All of the other commanders have mechanics that are radically unique to coop. There should be an experienced player tag based on that I think, but also one that shows the skill floor and ceiling of a commander.

Tychus is a lifestyle, Tychus is a feel.

I quite enjoy him.

He is definitely an easy commander if you have a solid understanding of Starcraft 2.

  • He is utterly terrible without artifacts, which can be surprisingly RNG on certain maps.
  • He does require a fair amount of micro to get the most out of.
  • Tess build is crazy strong, but needs a while to build up steam. Certain maps do not give you this ‘while’.
  • His units are prohibitively expensive and nowhere near proportionally as strong.

There are ‘hard’ commanders, like Kerri, Raynor, Karax, Vora etc. There are also ‘easy’ commanders like Stukov (although underpowered), Abathur and Zeratul. This feels like a deliberate design choice.

However - that all said: The existence of an easy commander does not negate your ability to play a harder one. Rather than insisting something be changed to suit your personal tastes (and likely reduce the enjoyment of other players) - why not simply play a harder commander?

5 Likes

This TBH.
People just whine about everything when they already have the power to choose for themselves.

1 Like

Try your hand at the Brutal+2 to Brutal+6 difficulties. If that’s not your cup of tea, then try other builds for Zeratul. Try Disrupters against swarmy builds.

Handicap yourself by picking the worst Top Bars…
Zealot Legion
Stasis Beam
Player’s pick for the 2nd AF power
Avatar of Form (the blue one).

1 Like