Since we already treat hellbats as bio units when transformed, why not give hellbats bio upgrades? This might alleviate the mid game issue Terran has with chargelot compositions
this would weaken mech so maybe a non overlapping mech bio for hellbats could work too. So upgrading 1 1 mech and bio would only give them +1
in hellion mode they would not share these upgrades which reduces hellbat late game utility to maintain current balance
Hellbats should get the bio tag completely removed.
Removing it would also massively increase TvP Mech viability because hellbats would be able to survive longer against archons. Mech lacks the mobility that Bio has so they need a meatshield to hold back enemy units.
Bio players never build hellbats and never will use hellbats. They are too slow, mines are far better and bio needs mobility to dodge.
Your suggestion is as nonsensical as Hellbats even having a bio tag in the first place.
Trying to shoehorn hellbats into Bio was attempted in HotS and failed. Mines were ultimately chosen as the supporting Mech unit for Bio in HotS and later siege tanks in LotV when they got buffed. Hellbats are simply just better suited for Mech than Bio and there is nothing wrong with that.
I guess hellbats could just get +1 when in hellbat mode.
So they actually can endure zealot barrage.
Removing bio tag would be good but uncessary at this point. Archons would probably just go straight for your tanks in mech since hellbat does negative damage to anything that isn’t light, if they don’t get kited anyway.
It’s completely necessary, you would know if you have played Mech against Protoss at all. Zealot-Archon-Immortal is the ground comp that you face and once your line of hellbats die by the archons, the zealots and immortals roll over your tanks and cyclones.
What you described happens exactly because Hellbats have a bio tag.
Removing the bio tag off hellbats allows the Hellbats to survive longer against the zealot supported Archons which means those hellbats can deal with the zealots better and survive longer to tank more hits from the Archons and immortals.
Also you do know that Hellbats do 18 damage to non-light targets right?. They are very useful against units that are in range.
Hellbats and archons are both fat. In this particular interaction, the hellbats just need to stand there and get in the way. Trading hellbats for archons is always a good trade by itself, as long as it doesn’t cause the rest of your comp to collapse.
The bio tag makes it so Hellbats cannot “stand there” and once your hellbat line collapses because of the Archons doing bonus damage vs them, your Mech comp fails.
One of the simplest and most vital changes to making TvP Mech viable is removing of the Bio-tag off the hellbat so it can survive against Archons which helps the entire Mech comp survive longer.
Fair enough.
I wonder if they ever considering this though.
+500 damage to shields and terrans will still cry!
Dude, why are you here? These posts aren’t even about balance. How sh*tty must your life be that you’re constantly on here harassing people?
(Yes, we all know you’re going to say you’re some instagram fortune 500 model/actor, we get it, you can lie, great).
And they will cry that you call them out for crying - always the victims!
So you’re asserting that disabling medivac from healing hellbats will increase mech viability? Well well well.
Absolutely not… hell ats vs zerg are great in early pushes with medivac healing… that is not the solution
I dont understand at all why we cant get the firebat back in the barracks with stim… then u can remove hellbat transformation and just keep hellions
Until then, hellbat healing is necessary
It’s a fact that it would greatly help TvP Mech viability.
Archons do a bonus vs biological, removing the bio tag off the hellbat means Hellbats survive longer against archons which means they survive longer against zealots and are able to protect the tanks and cyclones.
Also Hellbats are mech units, which never should have biological tags in the first place.
Yes it is the solution and hellbats don’t need to be healed by medivacs. Bio players DO NOT BUILD HELLBATS and Mech players DO NOT BUILD MEDIVACS LIKE BIO PLAYERS DO.
Marine Tank?. No Hellbats
Bio-Mine?. No Hellbats
MMM?. No Hellbats.
BattleMech?. No Medivacs
Standard Mech?. No Medivacs
Making TvP Mech actually viable can be easily done by removing the Bio tag off hellbats.
Hellbats having a bio-tag is nonsensical from every perceptive and it makes TvP Mech less viable when composition diversity in TvP is something that is desperately needed.
Bio used to use them in hots, before lotv chargelots started to rek…
HOTS hellbats were gamebreaking(which is why they got so many nerfs) and the only reason why they got a bio-tag was because some SC2 dev or balance team member had serious rose tinted glasses about wanting to make BW style Bio-bat a reality in SC2. Even after all the work and progress made to make TvP Mech close to viable, they still knowingly put a bio-tag on hellbats which has doomed TvP Mech for years.
Do you know how easy it is to go into the map editor a remove the bio tag off the hellbat?. Only a few minutes, and the Balance Team has had years they could have fixed this design mistake that has kept TvP in this monotone one playstyle mostly state for years.
To be fair, we’re in the middle of a significant zealot zerf… Probably best to understand the current situation before trying to choose nerfs/buffs.
Also, mines kinda smoke zealots pretty well in bio builds.
Hellbat/medivac is not half as unlikely as you seem to believe. You can’t remove the bio tag without nerfing terran’s early game in TvZ.
Not against Protoss. Also opening up hellions is very different from proactively building them all game long as part of your composition.
Medivacs are not built all game long since Mech has no usage for them. If your BattleMech you are already extremely mobile. In both cases the vast majority of the Mech army has no usage for Medivac healing and you need to be building units that can actually attack in order to survive.
Those few hellbats are sent to die anyways and if the Terrans playing Bio they never build them again the entire game.
Terrans early TvZ has plenty of options and hellbat openers would still be very effective.
Hellbat openers in TvZ a little weaker without the Bio tag?. Boo hoo.
TvP Mech significantly more viable because hellbats don’t have a Bio tag?. Hallelujah finally.
Can you name a single time recently or a single game recently where you saw a Bio-Mine or Marine-tank player building hellbats all game long with the composition?.
Can you name a single time recently or a single game recently where you saw a BattleMech or Mech player building Medivacs all game long with the composition?.
The reality is you can’t because Bio Players never build hellbats and Mech Players never build large numbers of medivacs.
Which means(because seemly I’m the only one that doesn’t live in a clown world of balance/design), that the Bio tag should be removed from Hellbats ASAP.
The proposed Zealot nerf never happened. Did you not read the patch notes and also the community update about them?.
Right up on the top of the General Discussion forum, hard to miss.