almost
That’s a sign that we are getting there with the viability.
So when TY or gumiho play all but like 1 game of a series using mech that doesnt count?
Sorry, it was against Zest.
Against Classic, he used Hellbats (skip to both of his mech games, and especialy 1 hour 15 minutes in particular).
Go 23 minutes 50 seconds if you really want to see the Hellbats. 26 minutes 22 seconds if you really want.
Did you really think you can fool me, the biggest Gumiho fan on these forums?
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Sorry, you’re right. Parting.
Hellbats at 21 minutes 42 seconds. 23 minutes 22 seconds, more Hellbats. Not sure why you claimed that TY never used Hellbats either.
I’m the biggest fan of mech, so I kind of take note of all these weird details, sorry.
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So you think its fine that protoss is ahead of terran in tech, economy and can hold any 2 base push with mostly pure chargelots?
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protoss usually has a worker lead over terran but terran has mules. If terran harasses worker line well then terran gets economy lead. Terran also has emp radius buff plus changes to make liberator range and speed medivac easier to tech to.
Most protoss know terran will try to do a 2 base push so they are putting all of their effort into stopping it, that is why the push can fail sometimes.
The Liberator range is getting nerfed too.
In that match against zest, he had like no more than 4 hellions/hellbats out at a time. He was using hellions for worker harass. when he was done with that he just kept the 3 or so units in hellbat form around randomly around the map.
Meanwhile, double digit mines were near the thors and tanks.
Supports the idea that hellbats generally suck in terms of mech composition. Hellions are good for harassing though. And can keep up with cyclones
I’m not saying hellion runby doesnt work and u might have a remaining hellions turn into hellbats in some situations. Or in battle mech when the hellion runby can turn into hellion.
In the gumiho vs classic game, It’s exactly as I said. The hellions for runbys were just turned into hellbats sometimes.
In gumiho vs stats, it’s the same story. 3 left over hellions were brought along and turned into hellbats.
The fact of the matter is that nobody gets a significant number of hellbats to buffer tanks and thors against chargelots like people are saying. Maybe leftover hellions are morphed into hellbats just because u only need an armory, but the purpose of building those are for runby/battlemech style
Players do when you go for a Hellbat-tank max push before fleet beacon.
Where? The only one i know of is the beastyqt game.
Usually on ladder in the upper levels. If you go standard tank mech you want to hit a timing against Toss similar to what you do to Zerg in ZvT where you kill them or damage them before they get to T3 air to give you enough time to get the counter units out.
For upgrades you can do it with just +1 attack if your macro is good or you hit at 1/1 if you do double armory and just overwhelm them with Hellbats-Tanks and Cyclones or Banshees or Liberators.
You usually end up facing CAI.
That’s not what you said.
That’s why I showed you videos where they were used successfully, and where they won. You didn’t quantify and even gave an example of Maru transforming his Hellions into Hellbats after runbys being the only one you recalled, so I assume that was the kind of example you wanted.
Also, against Stats, Classic and Zest, Gumiho had his Hellbats buffer his tanks, which is exactly what they are supposed to do. Serve as meatshields to prevent the Stalkers from killing his tanks outright.
Zest game: 17 minutes 7 seconds, his Hellbats buffering his tanks against Stalkers.
Classic game: 1 hour 14 minutes 52 seconds: Gumiho’s Hellbats defending his tanks and Thors. Gumiho also had Hellbats escorting his tanks at 41 minutes 2 seconds, even though he lost that game. Which is why MyOhMind constantly calls for the biological tag to be removed, but I honestly don’t see how that will work.
Stats game: Again, the 23 minutes 44 seconds is where he did his tank push with Hellbats buffer. A few of them, but they protected his tanks against 5 or 6 Stalkers. In bigger pushes, he will naturally have more.
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I have a hard time believing this works in high master/gm
which is why we rarely if ever see it in pro play.
Maybe i wasnt specific enough when responding to your case, which is because I’ve had the specific discussion with myohmind and terranicII before, which is mech involving significant hellbat production specifically to buffer for mech. That is my mistake
Making the leftover hellions into hellbats and throwing them away has nothing to do with this really. It’s not hard to find games with hellbats because all that’s needed is that a terran player has a hellion and armory…
Oh, okay. I don’t know about “significant” Hellbat production, but they always have at least a handful as meatshields or buffer, even if it’s not in double digits. But Hellbats will always be there. I notice that most of the Protoss players except Parting against TY never build a significant amount of Zealots against mech. I wonder why? They have very Stalker-heavy armies, but not many Zealots and Adepts, with the exception of Zest who ran his Zealots into Mines (and I recall one of TY’s opponent did just that, but for the life of me I can’t remember who, it was the one somebody was complaining about mech being overpowered against Protoss when the guy threw his Zealots into tank lines, Widow Mines and a Planetary Fortress after TY baited him with his Hellions and Cyclones). But why do they not go Zealot heavy?
Also, as a bonus:
Start from 19 minutes 24 seconds for Hellbat goodness.
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It works, but TvP Mech is very unexplored yet already shows signs of promise if different variants in comp are being experimented with.
All it needs is a few simple changes(I know which ones to do, barely a handful) to really make it a solid viable playstyle.
I am just going to leave this here
Bio has been explored to the fullest extent it can be in TvP, that is until Reapers have a mid-late game role.
zealots have 8+ attack damage so hellbats, marauders are useless
Hell bats and marauders have more than 8 health.
I think it’s because once there is significant amount of Tanks, Zealots will lose a decent amount of health while they’re merely trying to approach; even with Charge activating at 4 range and cutting the approach time from that moment, Zealots still have 7 distance to traverse through Tank attack area before that, so they’ll eat around 2 Tank shells for free. Meanwhile Stalkers can cut the approach time significantly with Blink, and have 6 attack range to deal damage from, at the expense of not retreating so easily (lack of Blink and Tank’s vs Armored damage).
Basically, with sufficiently high number of Tanks, it becomes incredibly hard to approach ground mech, even with units that are supposed to counter that style. I don’t know why Adepts aren’t used though.