Is there a reason that pro terrans do not make this unit more often vs protoss. It is a very tanky unit. I always see the terrans making marauders instead but that is not smart unless the protoss is making masses of stalkers. Marauders only do good damage against units with armor tag but zealot and adepts do not have the tag.
Zealots with charge are being nerfed because of PvT but there would not need to be a nerf if terrans made hell bats. How many zealots does the protoss have to make before terran makes the unit that is strongest vs zealot…I tested the hell bats against protoss in the unit tester and hell bats win against almost all protoss units on the ground for even cost, they might even be better than vikings and protoss. Archons are supposed to hard counter but they are 4x the cost and 4 hell bats will beat an archon too.
The only way to beat is to make disruptors and hope to get a good hit. But in a real game the terran could just turn them back into hellions and harass mineral lines since disruptors are too slow to catch. And if protoss has to get disruptors then he can not use chargelots easily, so the hell bat already did its job anyway.
Since blizzard is buffing hell bats with cheaper blue flame they should not nerf the charge on the zealot.
Terran can emp to stop storm and vikings to stop colossus. And the protoss does not have a choice with the zealots if the terran is attacking his town hall.
Mines are really good but they do friendly fire damage. Hell bats do not do any friendly fire damage.
They are good for tanking and you can load them in medivacs or put them back into hellion mode to make them faster with transforming servos.
The biological tag needs to and should be removed off the Hellbat. That is the only way you will see it in TvP since it makes it so Archons cannot do bonus damage vs it anymore. It also greatly increases TvP Mech viability.
It’s being nerfed in TvP and PvZ because of how strong zealot timing attacks are and also how strong Zealots are in general because of the non existent micro required due to Charge itself.
Yes, because mines are better. Hellbats are slower than Bio and ship weapons are better to invest into for Liberators over vehicle weapons(which have no effect on Mines because they do spell damage).
Anything that can kill Bio, utterly destroys Hellbats. Disruptors, Storm, Colossus, Archons.
Same rules apply to Bio in TvZ and why you will never see Hellbats as part of Bio army compositions. Bio requires mobility to dodge splash, hellbats do not have mobility to dodge splash. Hellbats don’t work with Bio at all and people need to stop pushing for Bio-Bat to be a thing again when the only time it was a thing was when Hellbats were completely broken in early HOTS.
You will never see a Bio player stop Mine or Tank production to build Hellbats. Just like you will never see a Mech player build medivacs or build enough Medivacs to heal every single Hellbat.
They already beat archons at even cost. Marauders and marines have bio tag too but people still make them in tvp. Marines are the DPS for terran, marauder and hell bats are for tanking.
There is no proof that charge is imbalanced.
Taeja makes hell bats vs zerg. But terrans do not need to against zerg then can just make tanks and marines.
Marauders and Marines have stim and can split to dodge splash. Hellbats are unable to do both.
Not really since Archons can kite them due to the range difference and it’s not a monobattle.
It’s a terrible design that shouldn’t have existed in the first place. Not just talking about Charge doing impact damage but also Charge being an ability.
It should have been a proper BW style speed upgrade and Concussive Shell on Marauders also should be removed because that is a terrible anti-micro design that stops anything except massive ground units from escaping a MMM army.
Taeja makes hell bats vs zerg.
He doesn’t, no Bio Terran does at all and never will.
Hellbat push is one of few viable openings in TvZ (rather whole group of openers) so nerfing it into the ground (removing Bio tag from Hellbats) would be quite bad.
Hellbat push is one of few viable openings in TvZ (rather whole group of openers) so nerfing it into the ground (removing Bio tag from Hellbats) would be quite bad.
Removing the bio-tag would not and does not change the effectiveness in that type of push since your Medivacs will heal your Barracks units or you will pick up your Barracks units. Those Hellbats are sent in to die and afterward you are never going to build Hellions or Hellbats again as a Bio player. Also boo-hoo one of Terrans dozens of ways to kill workers or push a 3rd in TvP or TvZ is slightly less effective.
What you gain in TvP is an entire playstyle becoming more viable and a potential unit choice in TvP if you are going Bio against Zealot-Archon comps.
The hellbats always die to banelings, queens and roaches.
Since Hellbats are Light they take bonus damage from Banes, and because of the short range Hellbats have the Roaches and Queens will always kite the Hellbats to death anyways on creep.
The push is a crappy gimmick either way you look at it. What you gain in TvP far outweighs if this one TvZ push is slightly weaker to deal with.
Also put your Hellbats between the mineral fields.
They can be used but Terrans don’t make a ton of them in TvP. This is mostly for these reasons.
They’re biological. Archons wreck bio.
They’re slow and fat. So too many actually causes problems. You want a max of 8ish with Blue Flame vs Chargelots.
They’re very weak to splash damage. Specifically Disruptors, Storm and Archons.
I do think Terran in general need to start using them more but again, only use 8 at a time. The goal of them isn’t to do do anything but deal with Chargelots and if Chargelots aren’t an issue anymore, turn them to Hellions and do runbys. They can be used with mines, Libs, Tanks, EMP and Interference Matrix for the ultimate “No Protoss allowed” layer cake.
Either A, it’s an early hellbat cheese in which case it usually comes with lots of concussive shell marauders, or B, it’s a 2-3 base push for a macro opener that comes with 2 tanks, and the hellbat desperately want to be dancing back and forth with queens and roaches because this is all happening in tank range.
Also, as for banelings. If 4 banelings connect on hellbats and there are no medivacs, then those hellbats are basically dead, good for Zerg. If there are medivacs, the banelings did effectively nothing, good work terran. It’s that big a deal.
That’s basically going Mech, which again suffers from the Hellbat having a Bio tag in TvP because:
Which is a big problem that only takes a few minutes to fix in the map editor by simply removing the Biological attribute tag.
They would be slightly less weaker against Archon splash if the Bio-Tag was removed.
Let me list all the ways Terran can harass to kill workers in TvZ and TvP, It more than makes up for if TvZ Hellbat pushes(the only time Bio players ever use Hellbats with Bio the entire match up) are a tad weaker:
Hellbats are great in mech. They are a much better meat-shield and Zealot screen for Tanks, Cyclones, and Thors and they are also much better at quickly responding to flanks.
Widow Mines have their uses (drops and setting traps for underprepared opponents, which often requires a mobile army to lure the opponent over the trap), but Hellbats are generally better at keeping other mech units alive.
You can choose either unit to protect the army if you know that the opponent will consistently come from a single direction, but Widow Mine plays rely a lot more heavily on destroying the entire army before it gets close, whereas compositions with Hellbats can still accomplish that, but they are also better in prolonged fights.
Yes, but that those counters rely on Bio’s mobility to avoid combat until the Ghosts disabled the High Templar and the Vikings have softened up the Colossus and to pounce on the Protoss army after those points.
Hellbats simply don’t have the mobility to keep up and function in a Bio army, and Hellbats cannot be balanced with that mobility without suffering sever nerfs to damage or health, that would make them useless as their actual job (serving as a anti-light meat shield for mech units.
Mobility is also very important to deal with Disruptors. Hellbats are far easier to pick off than Bio units.
Generally the Hellbat push is only one push though. It does not lead into prolonged Hellbat use throughout the game.
While removing the Biological tag from Hellbats would weaken that particular case, it is still debatable whether Hellbats would be better or worse off in general without the Biological tag.
When no Medivacs are around(the vast majority of the time you are playing Mech), Hellbats preform pretty good.
So removing the Bio-tag has no impact in Mech TvT and Mech TvZ, but it has a positive impact on TvP Mech since Hellbats no longer take bonus damage vs Archons which kill them regardless if they are being healed by a Medivac or not.