“I don’t understand the implications of these statements” is not “nobody claimed they are inferior.” If you make certain claims then by logical deduction you must also be claiming that they are inferior players. If A leads to B and you say A is true then you’ve said B is true also. That’s how it works.
There are only two things that affect ladder performance in SC2: skill and game design. If you assert that game design is not the cause of the terrans in bronze, then you are, by definition, saying they are inferior players. If they are not inferior players, then you are, by definition, saying the game disfavors them.
Pick one and only one: A) terrans in bronze are bad players, B) terran is disfavored by balance.
Yes exactly. They are neither inferior Nor Superior. If you Look at metrics Like apm/spm/Activity and Link that to their mmr, they are where they Need to be.
Ofc we would. If we ask Low Level Players why they choose their Race and they would overwhelmingly answer that its because of campaign/familiarity it would pretty much do the Trick.
What makes a Bad Player a Bad Player ? Apparently you say its only because of Race (why is every League lead by terran than besides GM?). But the Cold hard truth is that the Activity Shows that terran Players in Low League are similiar active compared to Other races but the Players in Low Level are in General less active than the Players on high Level. You can See that on nephest Activity graph. Btw i wouldnt try to explain the world with it but since you Like the Activity stat so much you i thought you needed to hear this.
How do you know that the terrans in Low League are actually Higher League with z or p? I would say they are either on Par with their z or p or more likely they are worse. Why would they Pick a Race that they are worse with and where they are less familiar with as their Main Race If they are casuals ?
Nope i never Said that. Its the Other way around. Low iq means Higher Chance of Smoking.
Exactly. Its Not causal that Smoking Leads to Low iq, but its also Not causal that Low iq Leads to Smoking. Its Just a Higher Chance, hence its a correlation.
The difference between Smoking and playing terran is that the difference in mmr disappears when you Look at Higher Level Players. Studies found Out that the iq disparity between smokers and non smokers still exist even in similiar education Levels or wealth Level.
Miro more or less Stated that the terrans in Bronze are in Bronze because they belong in Bronze. They are in fact inferior Players (at least at the time) compared to silver/gold etc.
anectodical but still funny: someone i know picked up sc2 in january and he got completly destroyed at first and dropped to like a bit below 1900 mmr. After ONE quick session with me he got to 2400ish mmr.
From bronze to mid-gold with 1 hour of coaching. I gave him a basic build order and basic instructions like: just constantly build workers and units and if you start to float money add tech and more production facilities.
But yeah i admit i 100% believe this is because he picked up protoss and not terran!!!
Now hes even sometimes beating players with 10k games Hahaha. 1 gaming session with coaching > 10k games.
Great now he has to learn that HT, colossus and motherships are units worth building all on his own. Short term easy gains as appose to hard fought lessons. That is the message bourne is trying to preach.
i already told him that basically any toss unit is trash but he still needs to build colossus. if he cant beat the turtle enemy he just needs to build carriers even tho they are also trash. Also i told him not to use ht and just excuse this by saying this is too hard below masters. just like any zerg would say.
Preach to all those silver and bronze terran players. they are actually just way better than all those diamond tosses or zergs. Preach!
Sure, inferior when compared with players of higher leagues than they are. But they’re not inferior players as far being compared to other bronze league players.
If they were superior to other bronze league players, then they would move from bronze to silver, and if they were superior to silver players then they would move through the leagues from silver to gold, and so on. That is how the ladder works.
Balance, particularly at that level, frankly has absolutely zero effect on where they’re ranked, regardless of race.
That’s a fundamental rejection of the concept of game design. For balance to be the cause it must affect all players of the same set, so it’s also a rejection of the idea that the game can be imbalanced. You cannot have the design of terran be the cause of performance and yet not have terrans whose performance is affected. People who belong to a set and who are not affected by the properties of the set are called outliers, and they are rare. You cannot strike bronze league as an outlier. If your theory is to be correct, it must explain bronze league.
No. That’s simply not true as balance really only becomes a concern as the level of skill gets higher and higher - You literally cannot attribute issues of balance to a race when low level players - again, regardless of race - don’t have even the necessary basics of macro, let alone anything more nuanced.
That’s an inversion of reality. Balance becomes less relevant the larger the skill variable becomes because the skill variable exerts more control over the outcome. That’s why you can nerf baneling HP and yet Serral beats Maru with mass banelings. The place where skill exerts the least impact is where balance should be most noticeable because balance is the primary variable controlling performance.
If a user isn’t exerting control over the game outcome via macro, what decides the outcome? The game design decides the outcome. Lmao. The same applies for other concepts like micro. If you exert control over the outcome via skill, you are by definition taking away balances control over the outcome. That’s the entire idea of pro play. Banelings are OP and will annihilate a mineral line UNLESS you have the skill to stop it via split micro.
This idea that balance only affects pro players is an obnoxious trope that quite literally inverts reality and denies fundamental game principles. The reason you exert control over the game, via skill, is to stop the game from deciding the outcome. That’s literally the entire idea of, you know, playing the game.
When game design decides game outcomes, the least skilled players are most affected. Feeling frustrated by the severe outcomes, they switch race or quit playing. This means racial representation at lower leagues is proof of imbalance. Zerg is the least played race. Guess what that means. Yep, zerg is underpowered. This explains bronze league, gm league, pro play, and everywhere in-between. I don’t have to strike bronze league as an outlier nor do I have to make absurd suppositions like “balance is irrelevant for 20% of players.” Balance is irrelevant for 0.2% of players, and those players are the pro players. They are the outliers, not bronze league.
You heard it here first folks, when somebody has their entire worker line killed by zerglings because they forgot to raise the depot wall, thats a balance issue, not a skill issue.
If ur a high mmr player that means you were trolling and if a low mmr it means ignorance. I assume low mmr because high mmr is rare. Let me explain exactly why you statement is correct. Innovation, the only player to take a tournament off serral (before the zerg apocalypse), said the hardest part of playing TvZ is not losing a mineral line to a runby, and how you have to constantly watch the minimap like a hawk. The winner of high level tvz has been decided, for a long time, by how well the terran watches his minimap. When you say “somebody has their entire worker line killed by zerglings because they forgot to raise the depot wall, thats a balance issue” you are absolutely right and that’s the exact conclusion everyone else came to which is why the baneling received multiple nerfs since then. You said it ironically because you didn’t believe it but you know what a broken clock is right twice a day. Congratulations on accidentally stumbling on the truth.
You can’t have it both ways, Miro. There’s an MMR disparity. Either that’s caused by inferiority of the players or it’s caused by game balance at the various skill levels.
Average APM for a group of players predicts their average skill level with p=0.996. There is a very clear causal relationship between apm and performance.
The scattering was once calculated to be Scattering ~ N(0, 13) which means for each individual player, their APM will vary from the average for their mmr value by <= +/- 13 in 68% of case, <= +/- 26 in 95% of cases. Someone in masters league will have 210 apm +/- 26 apm in 95% of cases, aka as high as 236 and as low as 184. An important distinction is that this is their average apm across all their games, not their individual games.
must be really hard to get out of bronze.