Because low skilled players have on average the same mmr doesnt matter the race and same goes for higher skilled players. How often do i have to repeat myself?
That there are more terrans in very low league is logical and this effect can be observed in many games…the campaign/standard faction/weapon/hero/champ is the most common one.
Random is massively underrepresented in gm. Buff random!
The protoss intern at it again. But its true. Everytime the master bug was present, terran was the most represented race in masters on eu.
You want to try and argue that Random isn’t harder?
Nope?
It was a Form of parody because you act Like there is a Baseline for how much a Race should be represented in GM.
So, in summary:
Terran less avg MMR = Not a problem
Terran less avg MMR per game played and experience level = Not a problem
Protoss consistently 38-40% of GM = Not a problem
Protoss failing to compete at the highest levels = Problem
That about where we landed?
Its important to note for who it is a problem.
You could state its not a problem for any player on the ladder but its only a problem for top pro level - and according to blizz balance team/the community / balance council that is the only important matter. In conclusion: the game is fine and balanced for about 99.999% of the players.
Another very important note: You try to act like its something worth mentioning or something important that terran has less avg mmr. But you fail to give any evidence or explanation why it should be important or why every race should have exactly the same mmr on average despite not getting picked at the same rate, especially not in contrast to low level play and high level plat.
Dont get me wrong. Its important to note that terran has the least average mmr…but that isnt surprising at all if you think about it.
The difference between your point of view and any rational point of view is simple: You act like its a very uphill battle for 37% of the playerbase (terran) and in my eyes its only about 0.0001% of the players. The thing for the 0.0001% can be fixed rather easily as very small changes can have a very serious impact for those 0.0001% players. To somehow “even” out the 50% terrans in bronze you need heavy impacts, meaning the pro scene will be completly dominated by terran.
Ofc there are very huge problems in sc2 in the design of the 3 races, especially with protoss. Meaning its not really a balance issue, its much rather a design issue for the highest level of play. For example since there is rather huge chance of upset in zvz since its so volatile, some zerg players try to avoid it and rather play as protoss. But at the same time, if you are the worse player, upsets rarely happen in pvz.
Right. So the disparity in results only magically starts to matter once it affects Protoss players. Never would have guessed. Thanks for clearing that up. Glad you’re not biased.
Or Terran players, or zerg players. You see? There are a lot of problems in the pro scene. The balance council stated that there are multiple problems for ALL races. However they say protoss needs help the most.
Didnt you see the latest patch? While they agreed that they want to help/need to help protoss they changed the role of cyclone to make it more usable and less niche. They certainly did achieve that. Or that they nerfed disruptors, so they arent so massable anymore. So they nerfed them. All races received buff/nerfs, but the balance council agrees that protoss needs the most help. Dont know why that is controversial. At least this can be backed up by data, unlike everything you have claimed so far. And the Balance council has literally Stated that they think protoss needs the Most Help. This is the difference. You use some weird stats to Come to weird conclusions meanwhile the very people who have the Most Insight in the Game say protoss needs the Most Help. But i dont use this to whine all day and Claim im Not top GM. Unlike you.
Only because A needs the most help, B and C dont need to be neglected or dont have any issues to be fixed.
Right. How dare I “use averages.” I must be a moron lol. No statistician worth his salt would ever “use averages and compare a population to another population.”
Just answer one question. Given the following statistics:
Protoss 27% of population while 40% of GM
Terran significantly lower MMR despite not being a measurably less skilled population
And Protoss under-performs at the top level for multiple years
Of these 3 statistics, which are indicative of the state game and should be remedied?
I actually audibly sighed because I was really, really hoping something would show up.
It might not be a measure you agree with, but it’s even the same one you mock Sentry for in this post. An average. Wow.
To answer the question, however, all three statistics are potential indicators of issues and can indicate different issues and have multiple possible solutions that do not cause other fields to, themselves, be weird.
To correct Terran whole-population average MMR being low, you’ll basically have to significantly buff the race when not micro’d properly, which will very likely cause them to be absurd in Masters and up.
This is because, to you, Terran is being bogged with extra weights and barely functions, it’s the weakest race, right?
That’s not right and you know it, directly from your list of three statistics in this post.
“In the top 0.1% of players, Protoss is the worst.”
“Averaged across the entire population, Terran has the lowest MMR.”
Both of these do not necessarily indicate a problem. But I think that it’s obvious that the former would be more likely indicative of an issue - intrinsically, because you’re looking at the game’s best players.
But that doesn’t mean there are or aren’t issues.
But what is important to realize, is that whole population averages are frequently wrong and you need to use some other analysis in order to make anything useful when you heavily oversimplify data by boiling it down to a single number.
I simply don’t know how to communicate this in language you understand.
No one was arguing for this.
Terran is not the “weakest race,” it’s the hardest.
It depends on if you want it to be a competitive game (as in tournaments; which they do), or if you want it to be competitive for MOST players (which they have actively admitted that they do not).
Ergo, an issue they acknowledge, but do not focus on fixing.
You mean Like No statistician would analyse clusters? Hahaha
You have shown multiple Times that you dont know what a statician would or wouldnt do. I think in your eyes the best statician would simply calculate the average once and call it a day.
Its pretty much measurable that they are flooding the lower leagues and thus calling Them less skilled (a Part of Them) is actually correct. They are distributed equally in lower and Higher League in the Sense that they still achieve equal mmr but there are much more lower League terrans. This is measurable. What are on about ? The reasons of this arent measurable…but logical.
According to the Balance council/Blizzard/the Community its the Thing about 1 Race Not being able to compete. You Need slight Changes to achieve that and this is literally the only Thing the Community as Viewers Care about. Pros of any Race should be able to compete. Btw the Balance council even mentions that they would do it even it becomes apparent that the Quality of Players would be so much lower for protoss. Maybe the only reason the Game is still alive is because of pro Scene. And 1 Race is clinically Dead for mutliple years is a Huge Deal. Changing gm percantage is Not directly related to Balance (even when zerg was completly busted the gm percantage didnt Change and when zerg wasnt in the best Form they still Lead gm massively in the past, but it changed without any real Design Change and protoss was the new Leader/)
Also…you use GM statistics as a Form of absolute truth. Which it isnt. But thats a whole Other topic.
No statistician would analyze clusters and then apply a generalization like “they’re all just bad.” Which, call it what you will, is exactly what you did, just called it a different name.
I see…you still dont get it
Btw ever heard about the fact that on average people who smoke make less money and are less intelligent? It doesnt mean ALL smokers are less intelligent and earn less money (and it doesnt mean that based on causation you are less intelligent or get less money). Its just a statistical imbalance compared to non-smokers. And scientists come to conclusion why that is based on sorted data. they didnt question and test every single smoker/non-smoker. Weird how it works, huh?
Also, in science you often use a rather large sample size like n=1000 - 10 000 and use it to scale it up to a whole population that is far greater. Obviously a larger sample size would always be better and its true that there is some room for error but still: Its practically impossible to ask every single person withing a group about a certain thing. They know this. But they still use those smaller sample sizes because it was proven by concept and proven by application in the real world that you can come to conclusions up to a certain degree.
I dont know why this is completly new to you. I assume, because it would prove you pretty much wrong. You only want to use the average only. Because thats the only thing that supports your view. Every single other argument is invalid in your eyes.
ironic cause you offered no data whatsoever anywhere. Everything you have said is qualitiative generalizations. “Oh new players play terran !!” prove it buddy ?
Yes.
You don’t think there’s a remote possibility that lower IQ people start smoking?
I actually proved that it’s the opposite. Terran players have likely been playing longer than Protoss or Zerg. Didn’t change the calculus for them.
700 posts and not 1 mention of bradford-hill criteria. Amazing.
In astronomy they calculate a correlation between cepheid variables’ brightness and pulsation period. This can be used to measure the distance of a galaxy. Distances of many galaxies tells us the universe is expanding. According to bnet science is hoax.
There is correlation between skill and apm. Whether it is causational matters not. APM of group of players predicts skill in same way pulsation of cephied predicts distance. Protoss have lower apm for a given performance level and are op.
Please place counter arguments in the trash bin so I don’t have to read them, ty.
There is a difference between APM and EAPM, something that needs to be pointed out.
Additionally, racial production mechanics are known directly affect APM indicators. Zerg on average have a higher APM than both Terran and toss specificslly because of their inject and larvae mechanic artificially inflating APM.
By contrast Terran is generally the most consistently middle of the road between the two races as their production is rear loaded and generslly comes in faster cycles than protoss production does, but isn’t increasing APM in burst like Zerg when they mass produce units at the press and hold of a button - remember each Unit prodiced by a larvae is counted as an action and a button press, even if you’re only pressing and holding. Mechanically speaking, terran doesn’t work that way as its less efficient and less effective to queue units up.
Protoss is a mix of the two races - they prodice in burst with warp gate, and more consistent queued prpductionnwith stargate/robo tech. However their burst actions are generally significantly shorter than Zerg due to the natire and cost of warp-gates and the units they produce, resulting in less APM overall.
Less APM doesn’t always mean less skilled, though there is generally a correlation between higher APM and higher tier leagues. There have been plenty of players who reached Masters or GM with low APM, across all races. In fact there are specifically challenges by content creators doing this.
Ah. I See. You actually dont understand correlation and causation.
I specifically Said causation. Smoking does Not directly cause less iq or less average income.
This is exactly what i mean with Picking terran. Picking terran doesnt cause you to be in 50% Bronze or silver. It is Not the cause. Its the Other way around: people who are unfamiliar/new to the game will pick terran at first at a higher rate.
Exactly with Smoking. It doesnt cause less iq, there is Just a Higher possibility that you are born in an area/circumstances/Family that is less wealthy and more vunerable to harmful Things Like Smoking.
This is the Thing you didnt get since the beginning. You are looking at those Things the completly wrong way. It doesnt make a Player Bad If they Pick terran. Terran doesnt make a player Bad. But there is a Higher rate beginners/Casual people to Pick terran (because of obvious reasons).