Excellent work on the following balance changes in batch #1

These changes should absolutely be part of the eventual balance patch.

Late game ZvP is helped with the Carrier and IT changes. Late game TvP and TvZ is helped with the EMP upgrade regardless if you are a Bio or Mech player. The recall change helps against Protoss in all PvX match ups.

Why the Stim change and and current Warp Prism change should not happen

The stim change will empower TvP 2 base all-ins and make bio-timings in TvZ hit harder and sooner.

The Warp Prism change will impact Protoss’s ability to harass Zerg and it entirely misses the mark on the problems with the Warp Prism. What should be done instead is make it so deployed Warp Prisms cannot load and pick up units so there is a trade off between deploy and dropship mode when it comes to being able to carry and pick things up at 6 range. Right now the design of the warp prism does too much for a dropship design.

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In my opinion Warp Prism is fine and it is was same for many many years. There is no issue with warp prism. If Blizzard wants weaker Protoss immortal chargelot all ins it is better to transfer some power from chargelots to adepts.

Just consider some interesting thing. When there was an era of phoenix adept playstyle Balance team cut 10 hp from adept and empower widow mines for more splash. But at that time there was no Raven AAM that would solve all issues with this playstyle. Terran would have a tool to fight mass adepts, chargelots wouldn’t be the only option for Protoss and Protoss would have a viable build vs early stim that is using stargate play instead of almost mandatory robo. So Protoss could scout early stim 5 rax and go phoenix adept from stargate. Cause now stargate just push you too far behind in terms of defending stim pushes(after stim buff if it will be released)

The reason why 2 base all-ins from protoss is so strong in ZvP is because of the WP pick up micro allowing units to have no cooldown blink. At 6 range, the WP is never in danger.

I agree, but the issue is not WP is OP chargelots(cause nothing besides that would be a problem to roach). They are too tanky, especially with the help of immortals. In general this is Margeary build, but again it can be scouted and defended. If you like you can go to Harstem’s Youtube channel where he explains how to do it and how to scout and defend. We can’t say that to solve one problem we should ruin dts and archons timings for Protoss right? It will result a lot of issues for Protoss macro especially with latest stupid upgrade nerfs…

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The issues go right back to it. The pick up range allows for major snowballing because critical units are not being killed.

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It is quite arguable, because without pick up range how P can stop 2 base roach flood on 51 drones? I think it is a part of gameplay, thats why Blizzards wont change pick up range.

By having immortals, shield batteries, cannons, disruptors,sentries and blink stalkers. Also Voidrays.

It is not that easy as just state what might help. I would add disruptors, but the issue is that Protoss is limited to one technology as an opener. If you open stargate you will have 2 voidrays and an oracle that wont stop 30 roaches, meanwhile void rays are gas heavy so you wont have enough sentries and stalkers with it. Same way you wont have disruptors cause robo bay is not an opener technology in PvZ and the reason it is just bad overall, no late game potential. With robo you can have some immortals sentries but forcefields wont last long enough to reinforce your army with decent amount of zaelots and stalkers, you just need WP for micro immortals otherwise it is a click for Zerg.

It is not that easy as just state what might help. I would add disruptors, but the issue is that Protoss is limited to one technology as an opener. If you open stargate you will have 2 voidrays and an oracle that wont stop 30 roaches, meanwhile void rays are gas heavy so you wont have enough sentries and stalkers with it. Same way you wont have disruptors cause robo bay is not an opener technology in PvZ and the reason it is just bad overall, no late game potential. With robo you can have some immortals sentries but forcefields wont last long enough to reinforce your army with decent amount of zaelots and stalkers, you just need WP for micro immortals otherwise it is a click for Zerg.

Look at your argument for a second.

You are saying Protoss unlike the other races doesn’t have to build tech units, static defenses and defensive compositions because they just have to build 1 warp prism to hold off an entire zerg army.

3 Likes

Then buff toss units to compensate; oh wait, that will make your gold 1 v 1 life even WORSE. Everyone forgets toss units are trash because of the warp-in mechanic/prisms!!

I would be fine with the voidray and stalker getting buffs to make Protoss less reliant on immortals.

you would have to buff all toss units

If the WP couldn’t pick up units at 6 range?. That’s absurd.

eliminate WP and warp-in from the game altogether and buff toss across the board; you think terran cry now? wait til they have to face toss units that are on par with their units

Quite opposite, but in PvZ you HAVE TO HARASS otherwise you will be far behind in eco on 7 minute mark. So WP is a harass unit for ground army protoss and if you open ground army you need a way to defend counter pushes if Zerg decides to all in during your harass. With just robo you need to produce 1 immortal at a time, to switch to colossus or disruptors you need a lot of gas and time, you wont be able to have enough to hold. Thats why pro players use WP micro to defend this with immortals. For viewers this is entertainment thing for Protoss it is a matter of survival.

No one is asking for that.

You keep forgetting Zerg has issues with Protoss.

of course not, you want to keep gateway units trash AND eliminate the compensation (WP/warp in)

So Protoss has to rely on immortal-WP micro to survive against Zerg all-ins and attacks. I completely understand that, however it shouldn’t be the only option Protoss has.

Also 6 range pick up is not fun to fight against since you are powerless to stop the warp prism.

You have been going irrationally nuts ever since the patch notes came out. Have you played on the test ladder or with the test mod?

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What stalker and void ray buffs do you have in mind?

Stalker getting even a little bit buffed would make it broken imo. Especially in PvT (early to mid game stalker play would probably just end Terran). The unit design is such that there is a fine line between acceptable and broken. A buffed stalker would be far more potent than current immortal is.

The void ray will never get the buffs it needs to be viable imo. Blizzard has all but made it clear that they dont want Protoss to have all around strong air units. Void ray is slow, flimsy, and doesnt have any impressive range like the tempest to keep it alive. The void ray would need something like the speed of a banshee, siege range, or much more HP/shield to make it viable…definitely not gonna happen lol

To be honest I don’t think the immortal is OP at all. Only thing that makes it look broken is warp prism micro against roach ravager, and that is a testament to how garbage roaches are rather than how powerful immortals are (since roaches evaporate vs terran too)

Stalkers were only broken in PvT because of the 15 damage they had at one point and the cheaper blink. Outside of those things you can give stalkers some buffs to do better.

You can definitely buff the voidray to do better, it’s a matter of how you buff it to be better in the role it has as anti-armor.