I find drill to be always useful, regardless of the map.
After all, you are using it either actively via top bar, targeting, or passively let it attack.
On the other hand, vespene drones are a single time investment. You save 600 minerals if I recall correctly all game. And even at 8 drones, you get 33% more gas.
That’s a good amount for sure but you don’t lose that 33% by not having the mastery.
Not here to debate which one is better. Just that either one works and frankly I like drill better for the above reasons. You can always opt to not give anyone any drones and it wouldn’t change your gameplay. After all, it’s not a vespene drone = super army and no drone = crappy army at all.
Not giving your allies Vespene Drones is also limiting your own gas income. Each drone gives 2 per tick to both players regardless of whose geyser they’re on.
10 mineral drones speeds up your macro pretty substantially both by boosting your gas income as well as being 90 minerals cheaper per drone. This is why it’s always useful.
Swann’s biggest downside is his ramp up. That extra gas income helps with that.
As I mentioned before when I play P0 Swann I use a combo of both masteries because both masteries are useful each in their own way. But with Payload Director since my Army is so much stronger and the Laser weaker, it makes more sense to lean into getting my army out and operational as fast as possible, thus I like going 30 points into Vespene Mastery with that Prestige.
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I used to be the big fan of gas drones, probably for a couple of years. Now I changed to drill. It comes online faster with a discount on research. This discount offsets drone cost to a degree. Income remains balanced for continuous unit production. Haven’t noticed any difference speed wise for clearing maps.
I would not worry about mineral cost too much, as gas is the bottleneck. I put gas drones down when have 14/10 workers on minerals for max efficiency and units in production.
Very early drill upgrades are a save button, specially these days, specially SoA, sliver/bonus/waves are close, there is no guarantee that ally will do anything, with the drill and bots you can do slivers/expo/bonus/waves yourself.
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That’s the thing though, when you have 10 mineral drones and drop them asap. Gas no longer becomes your bottleneck, minerals do. You combine that with Immortal Protocol mastery which only costs gas btw, and you have super strong Tanks that can be revived again and again even IF they die with Herc micro.
The combo works quite well in my testing. I don’t miss the extra Drill time at all. I hardly end up using it.
I used to play like you so I think i understand your point. I would rush 2 tanks at 2:30 with drones asap, however 2 tanks don’t clear maps. Need at least half a herc of tanks to clear objectives 1 and 2, by this time both builds are the same.
You’re right, but the thing is that with Payload Director (which is the Prestige I use full mastery on) your early game is your only concern because once your supply gets to around 120 or so. You’re WAY more powerful than normal P0 Swann.
Thus, my focus is to getting to that supply as fast as possible. Your Drill CDs are also nerfed by 50% (too little IMO) so the drill investment makes less sense.
Those factors together are why I endorse that playstyle again with Payload Director (P3) selected.
During P0 Swann play, I still prefer 15/15 or 20/10
Prestiges sure changes things, you are right. I still think in terms of P0 for commanders, as everyone has it.
This is exactly how I expected the discussion would go. It makes no real difference. A player who’s good enough will make either one work.
There’s no need to get so hung up on it.
I agree. The fact that there’s good arguments for both makes it one of the better masteries in the game. It’s all about choice and what works for the player. Heck, it’s also one of the few masteries that players can split the points to work better for their own timings and build orders.
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At least the 4 of us are arguing Swann tactics and not making general statements that he sucks and phrasing it matter of factly. One is way better than the other. Progress.
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I would love if Swann p1 was something like “no drill or its calldowns but your units are 40% cheaper”
I bet we’d still see a 15min roll out with 4-6 factories set up, hahahah.
You:
“Void Thrashing eh? With a Swann Ally. At least he has that -40% unit prestige. We’ll be done with this in no time!”
Swann:
“idef”
You:
…wut?
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I played a few games today with Swann p3 with max level and mastery. Was the first time I played it because during leveling I used p0. Was pretty awesome. The warp with both Hercules and science vessels works the same like stimm with Raynor bio. With one click all are there… I almost got like Star Trek moment… engage… drop stuff … Zap Amon 
Think the early game is still too slow but that is another discussion. For now P3 is my choice for regular brutals with Swann Boy.
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That’s because P3 is overpowered. I have a whole thread on that point.
5 Factories into a Thor rush, said Thors being produced on 2-3 Factories(third thanks to banking resources), the others are just to look cool.
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i dont know. i take p1. and lvl up swann after in P1. Groving economy. and using 2-3 hell bats + SV from begining. and grow up my army and economy at same time. And p1 swan on lvlling amazing. you can clean attack waves almost only with drill. and i create tanks only for def mission and add it to statick defence. and only one composition angry me. its mirror. when attaackers have thors,SV,Goliath. any others easy. if ally have hero unit - drill works non stop and help alote. How many damage its deal? 30-50k on LEVELING. My army comp its Goliath,Cyclones,Hellbat. After add 4 thorst and some wraith(becaus units already start body blocking on ground). And to wraits dont die: befor attack i use shields on them from SV.and i start using shields on my units from begining to they dont die and army grow up.
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That same player would also be able to storm 5 times in the same time. Or mind blast / destruction orb 5 times. Or seeker missile 5 times.
All of these options will outright kill most of the enemy. And none of the units reffered to above are anywhere as fragile as vessels are.
I think I know more about commanders than you. And not just Swann - all of them (except Dehaka - i don’t like him. He is still level 1).
Have doubts? I usually play at least 10 games per day… pretty much every day with almost no exceptions.
Today i played 7 (about to play some more, but thought i visit forums first), yesterday 16. The day before 25. The day before 20. The day before 9. The day before 14. The day before 23.
ht tps://freeimage.host/i/2zPM6G
I think you are a lot of talk and not much behind that. You seem to think similar about me… let’s have some friendly games, between noobs. My tag is zhadoom#1702. You can invite me any time you see me online - just whisper me first and mention this topic. Lets play like 5 or so random maps… you can show off your skill with Swann and then we can let the numbers on the victory sheet decide, whether Swann is competitive or not. You can decide which commander i play, ok? I think i can comfortably beat you with Kerrigan, Nova, Alarak, Artanis, Abathur and Zeratul.
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I’d much rather see a Brutal solo Swann replay, you can just go clear the map as P3 Zeratul and you will have more points than him anyday.
This is like a whole new level of bad approach to a friendly game.
Play just to prove that a commander is subjectively trash. I mean even if Zhadoom somehow did super out perform Glen, it would only prove one player is more skilled than the other.
I am at a loss on how this proves, improves, and contributes to Swann at all.
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